I think Linux could be in a state where a lot of people could easily make use of it and get away from Windows.
The thing is, Directories and Files still exist. iOS and Android abstract them away and obscure what is going on underneath. DOS was raw, you dealt with the system as it actually was. With Windows 11, you have a folder hierarchy which doesn't actually represent how the files are stored.
Of course they do. And that's more or less what I said, right?
Let me put it another way.
You used to have to understand+manage fuel mixture and ignition timing to drive a car. You don't have to any more, the activity of driving is not about managing the motor vehicle, but navigating the road and
negotiating traffic, to safely reach your destination. The car manages itself in the background, and alerts you when it needs intervention.
Files and directories are (in this analogy, at least!) fuel mixture and ignition timing. The software manages them, so you can focus on taking pictures, listening to music, writing documents, actually doing the macroscopic tasks you care about.
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy
caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exist
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
Cheers,
RetroSwim
This is just annoying. "Up a level", from the EXACT same folder,
differs based on how you go to the folder in the first place.
Retroswim wrote to boraxman <=-
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy
caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exist
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
Files and directories are (in this analogy, at least!) fuel mixture and ignition timing. The software manages them, so you can focus on taking pictures, listening to music, writing documents, actually doing the macroscopic tasks you care about.
The issue is that instead of being a predictable hierarchy that you
can reason with, you need to use multiple reasoning methods
depending on how you access it. I complain not just because it
annoys me, but because I have to explain to work colleagues where
their files are.
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
This is how I look at Windows in this regard:
"Home" is your user directory. This is where your "Desktop", "Downloads", "Documents" etc. folders are, which is actually very much, if not
exactly how Linux handles things once you install a GUI/desktop environment.
"Quick access" you can setup folders to go straight to. I'm sure there's probably a way to do this on Linux in a GUI/desktop environment, too.
"This PC" is where your drives are (or "/" on Linux). If you want to
start at a drive letter, and traverse into directories from there,
that's what you use. If you expand "This PC" it shows your drive(s).
Also, if you open a command prompt, it takes you directly to your user's directory, also similar to Linux.
I don't really see anything confusing about that. While somewhat
different naming conventions, it's very similar to Linux; again, once
one were to install a GUI/desktop.. which is what Windows is.
Regards,
Nick
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Retroswim <=-
Retroswim wrote to boraxman <=-
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy
caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exist
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Retroswim <=-
Retroswim wrote to boraxman <=-
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exis
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
I rode in one as recently as high school (c1988 - a Chevy Vega), and
rode in a few over time before that, but never owned one.
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
I think its the Quick Access part which bugs me, as Explorer shows
it as a folder, when it is not a folder. Its a pseudofolder.
Maybe.
Each time I've responded to this thread, I've checked at work to see
if I'm crazy or not, and yes, each time I can replicate the "issue"
of "parent folder" being different depending on how I got there.
Its not a HUGE issue, the phone bugs me a lot, lot more than
Windows. You also have "This PC", which is different to? Am I not
already on this PC?
I just found I have two "Documents" folder, one is on One Drive, and
one is on my C:. Again, you can wind up in the One Drive one using
the wrong shortcut.
Maybe its just me, as I work to very specific rules, and if the
system has exceptions, it throws me off.
Yes. "This PC" is basically root. I could name plenty of other things that would be better than "This PC", but I assume MS is just dumbing things down for the normal user. ;)
I once owned a 1970 Ford Maverick where I had to "fix" the automatic choke. I replaced it with a manual one. I actually like it but didn't always remember to open it all the way once up and running!
Windows has basically been like that since Windows 95 (though until
Windows 11, it was called "My Computer").
On a somewhat related note, I've seen memes online joking about how
they renamed that (replacing "my" with "this") - Do they no longer
consider the computer yours anymore?
Nice. A friend had a 1970 Maverick with a 302 and a 3-speed manual.
Red with a white top. Rode in it a lot. When he was away during the
Gulf War, his sister wrecked it. :O He later had another one with a straight-six and, IIRC, also a 3-speed manual.
I think it's just direct access to a specific folder, and you can not traverse backwards from that folder.
Ah, I may see what you mean now. I went to "Downloads", then went
forward to another directory, then hit the back button, ended up back in "Downloads", then when I hit back again, it went to home.
It seems to remember where you went during the same session. I went to "Desktop" in the same session, and then went back to "Downloads, and the back button got me back to "Desktop" before it went to "Home". I can see how that would be confusing, but I guess I don't use it enough.
I closed the file manager, re-opened it, and it started fresh without a location "history", if you will. Think of it as similar to browser history, maybe?
If I want something specifically in "Downloads", I use that. If I want to traverse, I use "This PC".
Yes. "This PC" is basically root. I could name plenty of other things
that would be better than "This PC", but I assume MS is just dumbing things down for the normal user. ;)
Isn't OneDrive a cloud backup? I think it's your actual folder, just backed up on the cloud. I disable that as soon as I install Windows,
along with any other "sharing" related stuff and/or sending reports to
MS, etc. they try to get you to do.
Oddly enough, I just loaded up an Arch VM with KDE installed, which uses the Dolphin file manager. It does the /exact/ same thing as I described above (retaining the directories you went into, and when backing out all the way it goes to "Home".
You have to go down to your drive(s) listed under "Devices" in order to start from '/'. So I imagine that's probably just Dolphin copying how Windows does it, or something.
Adept wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-
I wonder how many people here have had a car with a manual choke?
I have not (and, heck, my mechanic knowledge is mostly restricted to bicycles, which are delightfully simple.), though I do remember my
grandpa starting his antique tractor, after previously parking it at
the top of the hill so that it could get a rolling start.
And that a manual choke was definitely involved.
(but also that I mostly viewed it as a danger machine.)
If that tractor still exists, I'm thinking its 100th birthday isn't _super_ far away.
--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 (Linux/64)
* Origin: Storm BBS (21:2/108)
Ditto for that old dryer I got rid of a couple of years ago. Built like
a tank, simple as could be. And it dried clothes.
The "C:" is a subset of "This PC", where you also see the shortcuts.
Depends on how your organisation set things up. The PC's at my
workplace have a "Documents" on One Drive, which is different to the
other one. Sometimes when I save to "Documents", it ends up there.
Hard to tell the difference initially. They are two seperate
folders.
Mine had a straight-six with an automatic that I repainted metallic blue. It wa
a great little car until a freeze plug got a hole in it. I would of had to dr
p the engine to get at it. It ended up at the local salvage yard. Just to keep
on subject, it did not have any computers in it!
The "C:" is a subset of "This PC", where you also see the shortcuts.
That's not what I'm seeing. I also haven't changed anything from the default install.
At the top of the left menu, is Home, Gallery, and OneDrive. Then there
is a divider line. After that, is all of my "shortcuts" or "quick
access" folders. Then, another divider line. After that, is This PC with Local Disk (C:), New Volume (D:), New Volume (E:), and Network.
It seems much less confusing than how you're describing your setup. Maybe whoever setup the computers where you work changed things up?
Depends on how your organisation set things up. The PC's at my workplace have a "Documents" on One Drive, which is different to the other one. Sometimes when I save to "Documents", it ends up there.
Hard to tell the difference initially. They are two seperate
folders.
So, I would assume that the "Documents" on OneDrive are shared among the company. The other one, is local to your computer?
It could be the set up. This is not my home computer, but one set
up by the company.
There are many other confusing things about the set up, from two or
three different "shared folder" systems (Teams, OneDrive and the
company cloud), all of which are in use, so you need to remember
where to go for a particular file. Then there is SharePoint which
is related to Teams? So if I want to examine some specification, I
go through the web portal for the shared documents, but other
documents go through Microsoft Teams.
I don't really have a problem with that (I think ease of use is a good thing), though the effect of many people not getting interested in it is an issue, I think.
You aren't into haunting people now are you? :)shhh occult things i do. i am an angel xD
While I deleted most of it, I agree. Computers have been very dumbed down. Even more so if you include smart phones as computers.yes smart phones are horribly way too dumbed down and locked down. i dont like it
I had an old Pentium 90 (?) laptop that the proprietary hard drives were not very reliable. IMHO, they were not made for portable use... whichyeah it's horrid the reliability of propietary drives...
is what a laptop is for!
There's a YT channel called "ExplainingComputers.com" where, among other things, reviews various distros, including those geared towards people coming from Windows. Great channel for the non-technical folk.i love that channel !!
Of course they do. And that's more or less what I said, right?thats not so good of an analogy. on computers file management should be manual for personal files.. i dont think anything should be hidden form user honestly. it annoies me that there is .files hidden in linux. i understand it is not needed to be shown but dang man i just need to adjust things or look at configs
Let me put it another way.
You used to have to understand+manage fuel mixture and ignition timing to drive a car. You don't have to any more, the activity of driving is not about managing the motor vehicle, but navigating the road and
negotiating traffic, to safely reach your destination. The car manages itself in the background, and alerts you when it needs intervention.
Files and directories are (in this analogy, at least!) fuel mixture and ignition timing. The software manages them, so you can focus on taking pictures, listening to music, writing documents, actually doing the macroscopic tasks you care about.
And to build on that analogy, project cars still exist if you enjoy
caring about the operation of the engine, and Android/Linux still exist
if you enjoy caring about files and directories.
I don't think the analogy holds. Windows, and Android both STILL show folders and files. They have to, because your images or whatever are files. In folders (directories actually, but thats just a terminology difference).
The software manages nothing. It just obscures it. The file and folder hierarchy are still there. I download a document on my phone, now I
want to attach it to an email, or send via bluetooth, or perhaps manipulate it with some other app. I need to tell the app where it is.
Everyone still navigates folders and files. Everyone who uses a
computer at work does it. I don't know what OS you are using, but
Windows 11, and Linux, and Mac OS X, and Android, and iOs still show folders and files.
The issue is that instead of being a predictable hierarchy that you can reason with, you need to use multiple reasoning methods depending on how you access it. I complain not just because it annoys me, but because I have to explain to work colleagues where their files are.
There's a YT channel called "ExplainingComputers.com"
i love that channel !!
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