• Crypto currencies and mining..

    From Avon@21:1/101 to All on Sun Oct 24 09:33:54 2021
    Wondering if anyone here is into this, doing it etc?

    I'm a n00b but just starting to explore the subject.

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  • From apam@21:1/182 to Avon on Sun Oct 24 08:08:16 2021
    Wondering if anyone here is into this, doing it etc?

    I'm a n00b but just starting to explore the subject.

    This guy has some interesting views on crypto...

    https://twitter.com/smdiehl

    He did a really good thread on NFTs recently, not sure if he has done one
    on crypto coins.

    When I first heard about bit coin, it reminded me of the Second Life
    breedable secondary markets, that is it relys on newbies coming along and wanting to buy into the scheme to keep the fat cats rich.

    Unless you want to launder money or conduct some kind of illegal
    buisness, I wouldn't buy into the scam.

    As for mining, I don't think it's worth it unless you have some kind of
    very powerful dedicated machine, which will probably cost more in
    electricity than the coins it will generate.

    Andrew

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Sun Oct 24 13:46:16 2021
    On 24 Oct 2021 at 08:08a, apam pondered and said...

    This guy has some interesting views on crypto...

    thanks I'll take a look

    He did a really good thread on NFTs recently, not sure if he has done one on crypto coins.

    When I first heard about bit coin, it reminded me of the Second Life breedable secondary markets, that is it relys on newbies coming along and wanting to buy into the scheme to keep the fat cats rich.

    Heh

    Unless you want to launder money or conduct some kind of illegal
    buisness, I wouldn't buy into the scam.

    Agree

    As for mining, I don't think it's worth it unless you have some kind of very powerful dedicated machine, which will probably cost more in electricity than the coins it will generate.

    Yeah that's the thing, I can see it's doable but if you're running a low end machine at home I was also thinking the same thing

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  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to apam on Sat Oct 23 21:51:00 2021
    Hello apam!

    ** On Sunday 24.10.21 - 08:08, apam wrote to Avon:

    As for mining, I don't think it's worth it unless you have
    some kind of very powerful dedicated machine, which will
    probably cost more in electricity than the coins it will
    generate.

    How 'bout using geothermal energy?

    "El Salvador announced plans on accepting cryptocurrency as
    legal tender and calls for the use of geothermal energy for
    bitcoin mining in the country."

    https://www.thinkgeoenergy.com/el-salvador-plans-bitcoin- mining-using-geothermal-energy/


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  • From apam@21:1/182 to Ogg on Sun Oct 24 12:29:14 2021
    How 'bout using geothermal energy?

    "El Salvador announced plans on accepting cryptocurrency as
    legal tender and calls for the use of geothermal energy for
    bitcoin mining in the country."

    But why? That energy could be used for powering homes / buisnesses etc, instead.

    Seems like a massive waste of resources to me, for what?

    Andrew

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  • From Ogg@21:4/106.21 to apam on Sun Oct 24 08:54:00 2021
    Hello apam!

    ** On Sunday 24.10.21 - 12:29, apam wrote to Ogg:

    "El Salvador announced plans on accepting cryptocurrency as
    legal tender and calls for the use of geothermal energy for
    bitcoin mining in the country."

    But why? That energy could be used for powering homes / buisnesses etc, instead.

    Seems like a massive waste of resources to me, for what?

    For powering homes I would think that there would need be an
    infrastructure to distribute the power from the geothermal site
    to the homes.

    But only one structure that can draw power from a geothermal
    vent is much simpler?

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  • From Oli@21:3/102 to Ogg on Mon Oct 25 09:03:18 2021
    Ogg wrote (2021-10-24):

    Hello apam!

    ** On Sunday 24.10.21 - 12:29, apam wrote to Ogg:

    "El Salvador announced plans on accepting cryptocurrency as
    legal tender and calls for the use of geothermal energy for
    bitcoin mining in the country."

    But why? That energy could be used for powering homes / buisnesses
    etc, instead.

    Seems like a massive waste of resources to me, for what?

    For powering homes I would think that there would need be an
    infrastructure to distribute the power from the geothermal site
    to the homes.

    But only one structure that can draw power from a geothermal
    vent is much simpler?

    If you directly could convert bitcoin to electricity, it would be a marvelous energy storage. But mining bitcoins is just bullshit (that in the fucked-up world we are living does buy you real things).

    They could use the power to create hydrogen (or some other power to fuel conversion) on site.

    Also the article doesn't say that electricity generated by geothermal energy is hard to distribute and would be otherwise wasted. Over a quarter of their electricity already comes from geothermal (volcanoes). El Salvador just wants to make money (which makes kind of sense in a globalized capitalistic world).

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Avon on Fri Oct 29 15:43:24 2021
    Re: Re: Crypto currencies and mining..
    By: Avon to apam on Sun Oct 24 2021 01:46 pm

    As for mining, I don't think it's worth it unless you have some kind
    of very powerful dedicated machine, which will probably cost more in
    electricity than the coins it will generate.

    Yeah that's the thing, I can see it's doable but if you're running a low end machine at home I was also thinking the same thing

    Even a high-spec PC with an Intel i9-12900k and Nvidia RTX 3090 GPU would probably be considered low-spec compared to some of the bitcoin mining rigs available. I'm not sure it would be worth it. To make some money, I feel like a better bang for your buck might be to buy some things in thrift stores that you could resell on eBay or something.

    Nightfox
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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Nightfox on Fri Oct 29 19:07:48 2021
    Even a high-spec PC with an Intel i9-12900k and Nvidia RTX 3090 GPU would probably be considered low-spec compared to some of the bitcoin mining rigs available. I'm not sure it would be worth it. To make some money,
    I feel like a better bang for your buck might be to buy some things in thrift stores that you could resell on eBay or something.

    Nightfox

    Mining has been one of the worst things to happen to personal computing in the past couple decades.

    While I can't knock people for following the money, it certainly screwed US.



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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Nightfox on Sun Oct 31 14:29:46 2021
    On 29 Oct 2021 at 03:43p, Nightfox pondered and said...


    Even a high-spec PC with an Intel i9-12900k and Nvidia RTX 3090 GPU would probably be considered low-spec compared to some of the bitcoin mining rigs available. I'm not sure it would be worth it. To make some money,
    I feel like a better bang for your buck might be to buy some things in thrift stores that you could resell on eBay or something.

    If I opted to mine some other coins would that not be as taxing on the hardware?

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to paulie420 on Sun Oct 31 14:30:46 2021
    On 29 Oct 2021 at 07:07p, paulie420 pondered and said...

    Mining has been one of the worst things to happen to personal computing
    in the past couple decades.

    why? Is it because of the power use and the fact that hardware (GPU stuff) gets co-opted into that endeavor when it could be used for gaming etc.

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  • From apam@21:1/151 to Avon on Sun Oct 31 16:37:26 2021
    why? Is it because of the power use and the fact that hardware (GPU
    stuff) gets co-opted into that endeavor when it could be used for
    gaming etc.

    Yep, the main problem for gamers is it's hard to get a top of the line
    graphics card due to the miners buying them all. Also, they flood ebay
    with second hand cards when they upgrade, but don't say they were used
    for mining (apparently cards used for mining aren't very desirable
    because they've been pegged at 100% their whole life making them likely
    to fault later)

    You could farm that hard drive crypto chia i think it's called, that just
    uses tons of space rather than cpu/gpu, supposedly it's better for the environment, but I guess the don't account for old SSDs and HDDs filling
    up landfill.

    Mining might get you a few dollars, but I doubt you will get more than
    you spend on hardware / electricity, and I think they say 90% has already
    been mined.

    If you buy into crypto coins, it's a real gamble, because it depends on
    more people buying in to make money.

    I'd suggest if you want to just do something interesting with your
    computers idle time, maybe try one of those research projects like
    seti@home or finding a cure for cancer etc. Even those will peg your
    computer at 100%, reducing it's lifespan.

    Andrew

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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Avon on Sun Oct 31 05:31:46 2021
    Mining has been one of the worst things to happen to personal computi in the past couple decades.

    why? Is it because of the power use and the fact that hardware (GPU
    stuff) gets co-opted into that endeavor when it could be used for gaming etc.

    We haven't been able to buy a GPU from Best Buy in two years... so then companies came up with pretty cool AGPUs, built right into CPUs... and companies won't sell those separately either - you have to buy some new fangled laptop or gaming computer to get hold of one. Or play the eBay game at elevated prices.

    Either way; the end users can't get a hold of high end compute and if they can we have to pay crazy prices for the privilege. Even if I over spoke about crypto being the ONLY reason - I think its been bad for the users regardless.



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  • From Utopian Galt@21:4/108 to Paulie420 on Sun Oct 31 10:48:04 2021
    BY: paulie420(21:2/150)


    We haven't been able to buy a GPU from Best Buy in two years... so then companies came up with pretty cool AGPUs, built right into CPUs... and companies won't sell those separately either - you have to buy some new fangled laptop or gaming computer to get hold of one. Or play the eBay
    game at elevated prices.
    That is why I have a PS5, but that took effort to get too.


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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Utopian Galt on Sun Oct 31 16:08:32 2021
    That is why I have a PS5, but that took effort to get too.

    If we're telling all our most guarded secrets, I'm enjoying an Oculus Quest 2 ATM... FTW.



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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to apam on Mon Nov 1 15:44:16 2021
    On 31 Oct 2021 at 04:37p, apam pondered and said...

    Yep, the main problem for gamers is it's hard to get a top of the line graphics card due to the miners buying them all. Also, they flood ebay with second hand cards when they upgrade, but don't say they were used
    for mining (apparently cards used for mining aren't very desirable
    because they've been pegged at 100% their whole life making them likely
    to fault later)

    Bummer yep that all sounds bad from a gaming POV

    You could farm that hard drive crypto chia i think it's called, that just uses tons of space rather than cpu/gpu, supposedly it's better for the environment, but I guess the don't account for old SSDs and HDDs filling up landfill.

    Oh I'm not that keen on trying any of it, well I guess I'm at a mildly keen/interested level but (like a lot of things) there's only so much time in the day and so many things to play with :)

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to paulie420 on Mon Nov 1 15:45:04 2021
    On 31 Oct 2021 at 05:31a, paulie420 pondered and said...

    We haven't been able to buy a GPU from Best Buy in two years... so then companies came up with pretty cool AGPUs, built right into CPUs... and companies won't sell those separately either - you have to buy some new fangled laptop or gaming computer to get hold of one. Or play the eBay game at elevated prices.

    I'm not really a gamer so the whole thing was never really on my radar but I agree this barks for gamers :(

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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to Avon on Sun Oct 31 20:47:28 2021
    I'm not really a gamer so the whole thing was never really on my radar
    but I agree this barks for gamers :(

    TBH, I don't play a ton of games at all, either - aside from some iMac systems I don't think I've ever used anything MUCH higher than on-board Intel graphics...

    But, when buying a laptop I'd love to be ABLE to grab one of those AMD APUs where the GPU is in the CPU and its pretty good - and/or just to be able to buy a middle of the road GPU from a store for a desktop... but it seems like you can't find ANY cards.

    I might like to play some PCVR game every now and again.. and can't - because the best hardware I could find was a tigerlake Intel CPU on Mesa graphics. :P Good enough for me - but it would be nice to be ABLE to buy some horsepower.

    Cheers...



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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to paulie420 on Mon Nov 1 17:15:48 2021
    On 31 Oct 2021 at 08:47p, paulie420 pondered and said...

    TBH, I don't play a ton of games at all, either - aside from some iMac systems I don't think I've ever used anything MUCH higher than on-board Intel graphics...

    But, when buying a laptop I'd love to be ABLE to grab one of those AMD APUs where the GPU is in the CPU and its pretty good - and/or just to be able to buy a middle of the road GPU from a store for a desktop... but
    it seems like you can't find ANY cards.

    I'm like you, for me it would be something to power a super wide screen someday when I have enough $$ to buy that :)

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  • From apam@21:1/151 to Avon on Mon Nov 1 17:07:12 2021
    I'm like you, for me it would be something to power a super wide
    screen someday when I have enough $$ to buy that :)

    Oooh that would be nice.. I'll have one too please!

    I'm not a hard core gamer either, the games I like generally run ok on
    older hardware, I couldn't afford a high end card even if I wanted one. Currently I have an AMD Radeon RX 570 with 8 GB which is the most
    expensive card I've bought and it was between $200-$300. The top of the
    line ones are in the $1000s.. so you can imagine a miner buying 5 of
    those to stick in their mining computer (They actually have special motherboards that are packed with GPU slots.. and graphics cards are
    power hungry so I imagine a few PSUs are in order lol)

    It is kind of interesting to see the mining hardware available, that
    serves no real purpose other than making internet coins ;P

    Andrew

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  • From Nightfox@21:1/137 to Avon on Mon Nov 1 08:37:44 2021
    Re: Re: Crypto currencies and mining..
    By: Avon to Nightfox on Sun Oct 31 2021 02:29 pm

    Even a high-spec PC with an Intel i9-12900k and Nvidia RTX 3090 GPU
    would probably be considered low-spec compared to some of the
    bitcoin mining rigs available. I'm not sure it would be worth it.
    To make some money, I feel like a better bang for your buck might be
    to buy some things in thrift stores that you could resell on eBay or
    something.

    If I opted to mine some other coins would that not be as taxing on the hardware?

    I've never mined electronic currency, so I'm not sure, but I would imagine that mining other coins would be just as taxing on the hardware. But I've heard mining Bitcoin these days isn't as worth it as it used to be. From what I've heard, it sounds like you have to do a lot of mining to earn just at little Bitcoin now, whereas initially, you used to earn a lot more bitcoin via mining (I could be wrong though). The same could be true for other electronic currencies - If there's one that's a lot newer, perhaps it may be worth mining it. But it seems like a gamble though.. You don't know if another currency will take off, and Bitcoin already has a long head start.

    Nightfox
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to apam on Mon Nov 1 19:06:12 2021
    The top of the
    line ones are in the $1000s.. so you can imagine a miner buying 5 of
    those to stick in their mining computer (They actually have special motherboards that are packed with GPU slots..

    Yea; and when they upgrade to the newest fancy cards, they saturate the used eBay markey with GPUs, that are still good for most mind you, that have been pegged at 85% for their entire lives - much more likely to fail on the normal guy... who paid a premium to get the privilege of the used card. :/

    What do I know... most of my computers are used Thinkpads. :P



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  • From apam@21:1/182 to paulie420 on Tue Nov 2 12:43:20 2021
    What do I know... most of my computers are used Thinkpads. :P

    Haha, most of mine are second hand too, ex-office equipment mostly Dells

    Andrew

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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to apam on Tue Nov 2 17:59:40 2021
    What do I know... most of my computers are used Thinkpads. :P
    Haha, most of mine are second hand too, ex-office equipment mostly Dells Andrew

    :P I just won 4 Thinkpad T460 machines, docks and a couple 24" monitors from my girlfriends non-profit. They raffle them off after 3 years. Great machines... $120. :)



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  • From apam@21:1/151 to paulie420 on Wed Nov 3 12:47:00 2021
    :P I just won 4 Thinkpad T460 machines, docks and a couple 24"
    monitors from my girlfriends non-profit. They raffle them off after 3
    years. Great machines... $120. :)

    Oh nice! $120 each or for the lot? I'm guessing each?

    I tend to buy second hand stuff off ebay, where I live just doesn't seem
    to have anything available, it all comes from Sydney or Melbourne or
    another Capital City.

    You see ex-school laptops come up a lot, I have an acer aspire one that i
    got a few years back, it's a celeron I put in a 1TB hard drive and
    upgraded the ram. It's still a little slow, but I really like the size,
    being so small it's easy to take places.

    The last laptop I bought was an Idea Pad, it's bigger, but more powerful.
    I like it, but the keyboard drives me crazy, the shift key is cut in
    half, and on the left side is the up arrow, as they've squished arrow
    keys into the keyboard... i keep pressing up when I want to press shift..

    Ah well..

    Andrew

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  • From paulie420@21:2/150 to apam on Thu Nov 4 04:16:18 2021
    :P I just won 4 Thinkpad T460 machines, docks and a couple 24"
    monitors from my girlfriends non-profit.

    Oh nice! $120 each or for the lot? I'm guessing each?

    $25 a peice! w/ 8GB and 12GB RAM... one an i7, two i5s. Completely useable systems... and WITH the Lenovo docks - w00t w00t.

    Only issue so far is... I have tons of DDR3 RAM; but when I add them, and the T460s are a bit harder to get inside than older Thinkpads, they don't register. All I can find is that the T460 suggests DDR3L RAM, and I wonder if they are low-power or some sort of newer modules.

    Sucks, as I have enough modules to bring them ALL up to the max 16GB...

    But yea; there were 26 available, and if we could have won all of em I would have taken them all. LOL.

    I tend to buy second hand stuff off ebay, where I live just doesn't seem to have anything available, it all comes from Sydney or Melbourne or another Capital City.

    If you need a T460 for $25+shipping, just lemme know. :P



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  • From Mindsurfer@21:3/119 to Avon on Sun Oct 24 12:29:54 2021
    Wondering if anyone here is into this, doing it etc?
    I'm a n00b but just starting to explore the subject.
    i stopped mining btc in 2013. it would have been alot smarter just to buy
    btc instead of mining it. all costs for power and gpu's are better put
    into crypto directly.

    unless you have free power from somewhere. but still. all the hassle.

    and if you want to invest in crypto currencies directly, do your homework before you spend alot of money. first make yourself aware that there is a "halvening cycle" in bitcoin and what that means for the whole crypto
    market.

    Regards,
    Mindsurfer

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  • From Avon@21:1/101 to Mindsurfer on Fri Dec 17 19:54:16 2021
    On 24 Oct 2021 at 12:29p, Mindsurfer pondered and said...

    i stopped mining btc in 2013. it would have been alot smarter just to buy btc instead of mining it. all costs for power and gpu's are better put into crypto directly.

    unless you have free power from somewhere. but still. all the hassle.

    Yeah good thoughts, I've seen a local firm here sell mining gear and you buy it and run it for 12 months in their premises and take what it mines. But he costs are like 45k or higher for the annual setup so not cheap.

    and if you want to invest in crypto currencies directly, do your homework before you spend alot of money. first make yourself aware that there is a "halvening cycle" in bitcoin and what that means for the whole crypto market.

    the rub is there are so many to choose from so yeah, I hear ya :)

    Thanks for the advice and taking the time to post here

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  • From JoE DooM@21:1/230 to apam on Sat Dec 18 08:35:24 2021
    Unless you want to launder money or conduct some kind of illegal
    buisness, I wouldn't buy into the scam.

    How's that different to fiat currency? ;) haha


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  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Avon on Fri Dec 17 15:22:02 2021
    I got into mining around 2010...yet another project for me to play with...

    Every winter, I like to commit my gaming rig to mining (when I'm not actually gaming). There's a couple of benifits to this:

    1) My gaming rig runs hot. It is basically a 'space heater' when it's mining (or gaming). And, it's actually more energy efficient than my electric heat! (obviously, not a benefit in the summer q_q)

    2) I actually get 'paid' to heat my apartment. It still doesn't cover my entire electric bill for the winter, but it's still nice to get a 'rebate' in the spring.

    The fact is, unless you have a buttload (two buttloads these days) of cash to lay down on hardware, you're not going to make an actual profit. You can earn enough (mining alt-coins) with a gaming rig to feel like you're not wasting your electricity, but that's about it.

    Last year, I didn't even bother. And I probably won't this year, either. Not because it isn't worth it...because mining does wear out GPUs, and I can't afford to replace mine anymore! (Q_Q)

    This is the first time I can remember where my GPU actually got more
    expensive over time! I bought my GTX 1060, five years ago, for $250 or so.
    It's now selling on eBay for $500+ plus shipping! I don't even want to talk about the RTX series... \(>_<)/

    ./rant (sorry)

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)
  • From McDoob@21:4/135 to Nighti on Sat Jan 8 09:50:28 2022
    ... and while you're using your gaming rig for mining, you're shortening
    a live span of your hardware. All the components don't like to run that hot. CPU and GPU are at max load and the regular cooling of a desktop PC is not really that great to run at max load 24/7

    The games I play are just as demanding on my hardware as mining. Gaming obviously isn't going to run my GPU at max load constantly, but I'm also not mining 24/7; my PC is only doing that when I'm asleep.

    As for cooling, this is a custom-built PC, and it has water cooling for the
    CPU and GPU. If it were some pre-built system, I would be concerned with temperatures, too. However, with adequate cooling, there is no real risk to
    the hardware.

    And, recently, it hasn't been mining. Thanks to the insanity in the GPU market lately, I'm stuck with a pretty old GPU (GTX1060), and it's no longer earning enough to be worthwhile.

    McDoob
    SysOp, PiBBS
    pibbs.sytes.net

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
    * Origin: PiBBS (21:4/135)