• Re: No article

    From Anton Shepelev@2:221/1 to Alexander Koryagin on Sat Oct 18 19:54:58 2025
    Alexander Koryagin:

    Johnson and Bell had a good supper awaiting them. But
    before they sat down to table, the doctor said in a
    voice of triumph, as he pointed to his two
    companions,-- ----- The end of the citation -----

    Can you say a formal excuse why "table" in the last sentence
    is used without any article?

    This usage needs no excuse, being perfectly correct. Here a
    combination of a preposition and a noun in the objective case
    acts as a unified proposition, cf. /on top of/, /in place of/,
    &c. Observe also the title of a Dunany short story, /Thirteen
    at table/, where /at table/ is singe united proposition.

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/1 to Mortar M. on Sat Oct 18 20:11:22 2025
    Mortar M.:

    However, you could also say, "sat down to the table". This
    way, you don't sound like a caveman.

    But cavemen had no tables, being uncivilised. /to table/
    occurs a lot in civilised English usage, e.g.:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?origin=funnel_home_website&t=h_&q=%22to+table%22+site%3Agutenberg.org&ia=web

    By /civilised/ I mean, of course, the use of English at a time
    when only select few had a chance to preserve their writings,
    unlike our modern barbaric age, when publishing one's text is no
    longer a hard-earned privilege, so that any teenager generates
    publicly readable noise at deafening levels.

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/1 to Anton Shepelev on Mon Oct 20 03:34:46 2025
    I wrote:

    This usage needs no excuse, being perfectly correct. Here a
    combination of a preposition and a noun in the objective
    case acts as a unified proposition, cf. /on top of/, /in
    place of/, &c. Observe also the title of a Dunany short
    story, /Thirteen at table/, where /at table/ is singe united
    prpposition.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^ -- preposition

    Consider also: /jump ship/, /close shop/, /find fault (with)/,
    /change color (of the face)/, &c. These are verbs merged with
    following nouns in the objective case. The absence of an
    article reflects this merging.

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)
  • From Alexander Koryagin@2:221/1 to Anton Shepelev on Mon Oct 20 16:07:10 2025

    Hi, Anton Shepelev!
    I read your message from 18.10.2025 19:54

    Johnson and Bell had a good supper awaiting them. But
    before they sat down to table, the doctor said in a
    voice of triumph, as he pointed to his two
    companions,-- ----- The end of the citation -----

    Can you say a formal excuse why "table" in the last sentence
    is used without any article?

    This usage needs no excuse, being perfectly correct. Here a
    combination of a preposition and a noun in the objective case
    acts as a unified proposition, cf. /on top of/, /in place of/,
    ??&c. Observe also the title of a Dunany short story,
    /Thirteen at table/, where /at table/ is singe united
    proposition.

    Did you read somewhere about "unified prepositions" (URL please) or it is your idea?
    Maybe it will be interesting for you what native speakers tell about the subj in other places.

    https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/at-table-at-the-table.3982769/

    Bye, Anton!
    Alexander Koryagin
    english_tutor 2025

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1.0)
  • From Gleb Hlebov@2:221/360 to Anton Shepelev on Fri Oct 24 10:02:51 2025
    Hi Anton Shepelev,

    18.10.2025 21:11:22, Anton wrote:

    By civilised I mean, of course, the use of English at a time
    when only select few had a chance to preserve their writings,
    unlike our modern barbaric age, when publishing one's text is no
    longer a hard-earned privilege, so that any teenager generates
    publicly readable noise at deafening levels.

    [...tips his top hat and gracefully readjusts monocle...] :-)


    --
    "The study of non-linear physics is like the study of non-elephant
    biology." -- Unknown

    --- FastEcho/2 1.46.1 Revival
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/360 to Alexander Koryagin on Mon Oct 27 18:53:40 2025
    Alexander Koryagin to Anton Shepelev:

    This usage needs no excuse, being perfectly correct. Here a
    combination of a preposition and a noun in the objective case
    acts as a unified proposition, cf. /on top of/, /in place of/,
    ??&c. Observe also the title of a Dunany short story,
    /Thirteen at table/, where /at table/ is singe united
    proposition.

    Did you read somewhere about "unified prepositions" (URL
    please) or it is your idea?

    My idea.

    Maybe it will be interesting for you what native speakers
    tell about the subj in other places.

    Of course, and so I read about it.

    <https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/at-table-at-the-table.3982769/>

    This particular reference is not very useful, as none of the
    participants provided an analysis and explanation of this
    construction.

    ---
    * Origin: news://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/360.0)
  • From Anton Shepelev@2:221/360 to Anton Shepelev on Thu Oct 30 10:30:02 2025
    I wrote:

    This usage needs no excuse, being perfectly correct. Here a
    combination of a preposition and a noun in the objective
    case acts as a unified proposition, cf. /on top of/, /in
    place of/, &c. Observe also the title of a Dunany short
    story, /Thirteen at table/, where /at table/ is singe united
    proposition.

    All of
    at work
    at school
    online/offline
    offroad
    on air
    out of band signal (of exceptions)
    are instances of this phenomenon.

    ---
    * Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/360.0)
  • From Ardith Hinton@1:153/716 to Anton Shepelev on Thu Nov 20 23:06:17 2025
    Hi, Anton! Recently you wrote in a message to Mortar M.:

    /to table/ occurs a lot in civilised English usage


    _ _ _ O / _ _ C_U_T_ H_E_R_E_ _ _ _
    O \


    By /civilised/ I mean, of course, the use of English at a time
    when only select few
    | Hmm. I'd say "a select few" or "the select few" in this context

    had a chance to preserve their writings, unlike our modern
    barbaric age, when publishing one's text is no longer a hard-
    earned privilege, so that any teenager generates publicly
    readable noise at deafening levels.


    Yes. As a former junior high school teacher I wonder how some people managed to pass grade eight English. OTOH I can't be sure they did.... :-))




    --- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
    * Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)