boy i am seeing a LOT of army and airforce ads online where they target young adults.

guess we are going to be involved in some wars.
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Re: going to war
By: MRO to All on Thu Nov 09 2023 04:57 am

boy i am seeing a LOT of army and airforce ads online where they target you >
guess we are going to be involved in some wars.

Somebody on IRC posted an article which mentioned they are having trouble raising the number of recruits. I have not checked elsewhere for the veracity of this information, but it would stand to reason. Nowadays, if you join the army, you are no longer defending your country, but some corrupt bunch of politicians.

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Re: going to war
By: Arelor to MRO on Thu Nov 09 2023 05:50 pm

Re: going to war
By: MRO to All on Thu Nov 09 2023 04:57 am

boy i am seeing a LOT of army and airforce ads online where they target you

guess we are going to be involved in some wars.

Somebody on IRC posted an article which mentioned they are having trouble raising the number of recruits. I have not checked elsewhere for the veracity of this information, but it would stand to reason. Nowadays, if you join the army, you are no longer defending your country, but some corrupt bunch of politicians.

they are ditching the they/them commercials and doing all white male ones.
need some real soldiers.
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boy i am seeing a LOT of army and airforce ads online where they target

o

guess we are going to be involved in some wars.

Somebody on IRC posted an article which mentioned they are having trouble raising the number of recruits. I have not checked elsewhere for the veracity of this information, but it would stand to reason. Nowadays, if you join the army, you are no longer defending your country, but some corrupt bunch of politicians.

That source is correct. The number of volunteers among this most recent generation of 18+ year olds has dropped. The US armed forces are trying to alter their message in order to reach potential recruits in this new generation, like making it seem more LGBTQ+ friendly.


* SLMR 2.1a * Float on a river, forever and ever, Emily...Emily...

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they are ditching the they/them commercials and doing all white male ones. need some real soldiers.

I had not heard that, but I wondered why they thought that approach would
work to begin with.


* SLMR 2.1a * A restless eye across a weary room...

---
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That source is correct. The number of volunteers among this most recent generation of 18+ year olds has dropped. The US armed forces are trying to alter their message in order to reach potential recruits in this new generation, like making it seem more LGBTQ+ friendly.

Are we still talking about army or some gang bang show?

-h1

... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Nov 11 2023 09:01 am

they are ditching the they/them commercials and doing all white male ones. need some real soldiers.

I had not heard that, but I wondered why they thought that approach would work to begin with.

well they relaxed their requirements a LOT. maybe those people aren't working out. I think they have a lot of people that went awol and just thought they were joining for free school.
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@MSGID: <654FF7C4.129064.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>

That source is correct. The number of volunteers among this most recent generation of 18+ year olds has dropped. The US armed forces are trying to alter their message in order to reach potential recruits in this new generation, like making it seem more LGBTQ+ friendly.

Are we still talking about army or some gang bang show?

The US Armed Forces. As mro pointed out, they may have already abandoned
this message alteration. I never actually saw any such ads, just that they were consindering them in order to appeal to the newer, more "sensitive" generations.


* SLMR 2.1a * Gimme three chili dogs and a malt.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to HOLLOWONE on Sun Nov 12 2023 03:25 pm

@MSGID: <654FF7C4.129064.dove-gen@vert.synchro.net>

That source is correct. The number of volunteers among this most recent generation of 18+ year olds has dropped. The US armed forces are trying to alter their message in order to reach potential recruits in this new generation, like making it seem more LGBTQ+ friendly.

Are we still talking about army or some gang bang show?

The US Armed Forces. As mro pointed out, they may have already abandoned this message alteration. I never actually saw any such ads, just that they were consindering them in order to appeal to the newer, more "sensitive" generations.

this christian news one plays part of an ad. https://youtu.be/ZSpHWBzWaN0?si=zVPjTaBbwEh32u-m

the one i saw had a little bit of they/them's in it and then it had
people with tattos on their forearms and they zoomed in on them.

I looked it up and the new regs allow tattoos anywhere except face and neck and one ring finger tat.
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MRO wrote to All <=-

boy i am seeing a LOT of army and airforce ads online where they
target young adults.

guess we are going to be involved in some wars.
---
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You would prefer our military attempt to recruit the elderly? I'm 64. I've already done my hitch but if need be, I am willing.


... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
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Arelor wrote to MRO <=-

Re: going to war
By: MRO to All on Thu Nov 09 2023 04:57 am

boy i am seeing a LOT of army and airforce ads online where they target you

guess we are going to be involved in some wars.

Somebody on IRC posted an article which mentioned they are having
trouble raising the number of recruits. I have not checked elsewhere
for the veracity of this information, but it would stand to reason. Nowadays, if you join the army, you are no longer defending your
country, but some corrupt bunch of politicians.

---
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One major problem the military is having is FINDING physically fit recruits. The military now even has a program wherein hopeful recruits engage in a physical fitness program to prepare them for basic military training. A boot camp boot camp, in other terms. Never would have thought such a thing even possible back when I first enlisted....



... Excuse me... What does God need with a Starship?
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Dumas Walker wrote to ARELOR <=-

boy i am seeing a LOT of army and airforce ads online where they target

o

guess we are going to be involved in some wars.

Somebody on IRC posted an article which mentioned they are having trouble raising the number of recruits. I have not checked elsewhere for the

veracity

of this information, but it would stand to reason. Nowadays, if you join the army, you are no longer defending your country, but some corrupt bunch of politicians.

That source is correct. The number of volunteers among this most
recent generation of 18+ year olds has dropped. The US armed forces
are trying to alter their message in order to reach potential recruits
in this new generation, like making it seem more LGBTQ+ friendly.

* SLMR 2.1a * Float on a river, forever and ever, Emily...Emily...

They started that shit when I was in, although it was just barely beginning. Our military doesn't need to be woke it needs to be kicking ass. Although it's a lot more of a push-button military than in the Reagan years, there will always be a need for actual, physical boots on the ground who are trained and able to engage in physical warfare. It's hard to be a warrior when you're worried about hurting someone's tender little feelings and if you're an ineffective soldier because YOUR tender little feelings hve been bruised then we're better off without you.


... What is mind? No matter! What is matter? Never mind! - Homer S.
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MRO wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Sat Nov 11 2023 09:01 am

they are ditching the they/them commercials and doing all white male ones. need some real soldiers.

I had not heard that, but I wondered why they thought that approach would work to begin with.

well they relaxed their requirements a LOT. maybe those people aren't working out. I think they have a lot of people that went awol and just thought they were joining for free school. ---
= Synchronet = ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Heh heh... when I first enlisted the Army had JUST removed enlistment in the Army as an alternative to serving time in jail for those convicted of various crimes. This was several years post-Vietnam and the Army was trying to be more selective about their recruiting.


... Remember... RAM is NOT an insertion technique!
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Weatherman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

Our military doesn't need to be woke it needs to be kicking
ass.

Assuming it can't be both?

It's hard to be a warrior when you're worried about hurting someone's tender little feelings

That feels like a bit of a stretch.





... The answers will be found in the logs.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to MRO on Mon Nov 13 2023 02:25 am

MRO wrote to All <=-

boy i am seeing a LOT of army and airforce ads online where they target young adults.

guess we are going to be involved in some wars.
---
= Synchronet = ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

You would prefer our military attempt to recruit the elderly? I'm 64.
I've already done my hitch but if need be, I am willing.

yeah that's exactly what i'm getting at.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to Arelor on Mon Nov 13 2023 02:27 am

One major problem the military is having is FINDING physically fit recruits. The military now even has a program wherein hopeful recruits engage in a physical fitness program to prepare them for basic military training. A boot camp boot camp, in other terms. Never would have thought such a thing even possible back when I first enlisted....

according to the armed forces, that is not the major problem. https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/09/30/military-recruiting-desantis-woke-abortion-health-waiver-jobs-politifact/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20residual%20effects%20of%20the,recruiting%20challenges%2C%E2%80%9D%20Schwegman%20said.

https://tinyurl.com/bddthx92
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Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Weatherman on Mon Nov 13 2023 06:26 am

Assuming it can't be both?

Let's say that if your army has inner psychological conflicts then you are in abad spot if the other side has no inner psychological conflict because Allah
has commanded them to kill 'em all faggots.

--
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Nov 13 2023 02:04 pm

Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Weatherman on Mon Nov 13 2023 06:26 am

Assuming it can't be both?

Let's say that if your army has inner psychological conflicts then you are in abad spot if the other side has no inner psychological conflict because Allah has commanded them to kill 'em all faggots.

i think we need a comprehensive test to give to teachers, police, the military, people that manually operate bridges, and people in govt and city positions.

it has to be more than these stupid 1000 question deals. they need to subject someone to stress and see how they react. also find a way to weed out pedophiles. Do a decent check and talk to all their friends and family and associates. After that, pay them a decent wage.

I have passed a deep fbi check and other personality tests for jobs.
We all know i'm a lunatic but i'm smart enough to scoot on through.
I'm just joking though. i handle pressure well and I'm not a pedo.

but there's different types of people. there's ones that freeze under pressure and some that ride it out. there's people that go through shit with zero mental damage and some people that get ptsd when they fly over ground combat.

my ex's husband got ptsd from the army just because someone yelled at him. he saw no combat.

I think everyone knows that they/them's are mentally unstable. people with gender identity disorder are unstable and unsafe to themselves and possible others.
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Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Assuming it can't be both?

Let's say that if your army has inner psychological conflicts then you
are in abad spot if the other side has no inner psychological conflict because Allah has commanded them to kill 'em all faggots.

I don't think that any modern sensibilities will impact one's ability to
defend oneself when someone's shooting at them.




... DESQview/386 - the only way to multitask!
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue Nov 14 2023 05:53 am

Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Assuming it can't be both?

Let's say that if your army has inner psychological conflicts then you are in abad spot if the other side has no inner psychological conflict because Allah has commanded them to kill 'em all faggots.

I don't think that any modern sensibilities will impact one's ability to defend oneself when someone's shooting at them.

I wouldn't call it senseable to have gender identity disorder and become suicidal, or to hate your country and still join the military.
There's also a lot of youth on adhd meds and other stuff. There's a huge problem with antisocial behavior and autism with young people.

Before these people would go awol, now they just aren't enlisting.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue Nov 14 2023 05:53 am

I don't think that any modern sensibilities will impact one's ability to defend oneself when someone's shooting at them.

My uncle is an army officer here.

He has a share of stories about the current trends. Suffices to say that units that used to be historically build up from scumbags, cutthroats and lowlifes have stories of awesome, while units build up from random population have more stories of suck.

A problem here is that a lot of recruitment among the general population was done by telling the public the army was all about sharing candy with poor people in depressed countries back in the day. That message attracts people with modern sensibilities but it does not get the killer-types you get in corpslike the Legion or the Parachute Brigades.

--
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Nov 13 2023 02:04 pm

in abad spot if the other side has no inner psychological conflict because Allah has commanded them to kill 'em all faggots.

Does/did Allah actually use such language?
--
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Digital Man to Arelor on Tue Nov 14 2023 11:20 am

Re: Re: going to war
By: Arelor to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Nov 13 2023 02:04 pm

in abad spot if the other side has no inner psychological conflict because Allah has commanded them to kill 'em all faggots.

Does/did Allah actually use such language?

the bible and Qur'an are works created by man, despite them stating it was delivered by god in various ways. (but i wasn't there so i might be wrong)

they didn't use slang words like faggots but they say that homosexuals should be put to death.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Digital Man to Arelor on Tue Nov 14 2023 11:20 am

Does/did Allah actually use such language?

Dunno about Allah, aka God (since Islamist's actually worship the Abrahamic God) but Quran is harsh against homosexuals. Actually I think they don't need to kill 'em all faggots if homosexuals actually repent from their sinning ways (Quran 4:16).

There is a passage in Al-Hudud commanding explicitly that homosexuals be killed, on the other hand.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Digital Man on Wed Nov 15 2023 02:33 am

the bible and Qur'an are works created by man, despite them stating it was delivered by god in various ways. (but i wasn't there so i might be wrong)

It was a rhetorical question.
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Assuming it can't be both?

Let's say that if your army has inner psychological conflicts then you are in abad spot if the other side has no inner psychological conflict because Allah has commanded them to kill 'em all faggots.

I don't think that any modern sensibilities will impact one's ability to defend oneself when someone's shooting at them.

Persons of a more sensitive nature are likely have a lower "PTSD threshold."


* SLMR 2.1a * "I didn't know chicks in videos wore underpants!"- Beavis

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Wed Nov 15 2023 08:41 am

I have been watching this thread evolve and waiting for something to spark my interest. Im not sure I have anything to say about PTSD as an active duty soldier of 19 years that works in computers. I do not have it but I do have friends that do. I also come in contact with many younger soldiers daily as I am currently at a training base. I also spent a few years recruiting. I can say that they, the 17-24 year old E1-E4 junior soldiers, are just as sensitive and dumb as we old timers were when we joined. This is not a life for someone who has fragile emotions and fortunately initial training weeds most of that type out. What is left is people that, over time, can be molded into soldiers that anyone could be proud of. They are instilled with something called Army Values: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. These values and the constant barage of institutional thinking helps to turn those jelly-like minds into something like what you might want representing you overseas.

-Xanth/Sold1erG33k

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Xanth to Dumas Walker on Thu Nov 16 2023 09:55 am

most of that type out. What is left is people that, over time, can be molded into soldiers that anyone could be proud of. They are instilled with something called Army Values: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. These values and the constant barage of institutional thinking helps to turn those jelly-like minds into something like what you might want representing you overseas.

yeah my whole family are lifers. until a few years back i was in constant contact with the military. shit is NOT the same. requirements are lower. standards have been lowered. 'woke' and progressive values are being injected into our military. that's not good for anything.

look at whats happened to our society since this value change.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Xanth on Thu Nov 16 2023 12:40 pm

Oh no. 'woke' in quotes.

https://i.imgur.com/91sn32Q.jpeg

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timers were when we joined. This is not a life for someone who has fragile emot
ons and fortunately initial training weeds most of that type out. What is left >s people that, over time, can be molded into soldiers that anyone could be prou
of. They are instilled with something called Army Values: Loyalty, Duty, Respe
t, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. These values and t
e constant barage of institutional thinking helps to turn those jelly-like mind
into something like what you might want representing you overseas.

Thanks for your input. This is very good to know, and thank you for your service!


* SLMR 2.1a * Wrinkles only go where smiles have been - Jimmy Buffett

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nopants to MRO on Thu Nov 16 2023 05:06 pm

Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Xanth on Thu Nov 16 2023 12:40 pm

Oh no. 'woke' in quotes.

https://i.imgur.com/91sn32Q.jpeg

we're all old here, motherfucker.

go dye your hair purple and think up a new gender to be today.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Nopants on Fri Nov 17 2023 09:22 am

You don't need purple hair to 'think', silly.



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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Weatherman <=-

Weatherman wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

Our military doesn't need to be woke it needs to be kicking
ass.

Assuming it can't be both?

It's hard to be a warrior when you're worried about hurting someone's tender little feelings

That feels like a bit of a stretch.

... The answers will be found in the logs.

I find myself wondering just how long YOU served...

... Excuse me... What does God need with a Starship?
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MRO wrote to Weatherman <=-

Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to Arelor on Mon Nov 13 2023 02:27 am

One major problem the military is having is FINDING physically fit recruits. The military now even has a program wherein hopeful recruits engage in a physical fitness program to prepare them for basic military training. A boot camp boot camp, in other terms. Never would have thought such a thing even possible back when I first enlisted....

according to the armed forces, that is not the major problem. https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2023/09/30/military-recru iting-desantis-woke-abortion-health-waiver-jobs-politifact/#:~:text=%E2% 80%9CThe%20residual%20effects%20of%20the,recruiting%20challenges%2C%E2%8 0%9D%20Schwegman%20said.

https://tinyurl.com/bddthx92
---

Lifted this directly from the article you referenced:

"Military officials and experts have cited reasons such as low unemployment, families advising against joining, and a shrinking pool of Americans fit to serve ƒ€” not diversity and inclusion efforts.

Recent numbers suggest that 77% of young Americans wouldnƒ€™t be eligible to serve without first getting a waiver. Top reasons people are determined to be ineligible include failing entrance exams or common health concerns such as obesity and mental illness. Prior criminal activity, including drug abuse, is also a barrier."

That passage pretty well supports what I said in that ONE major problem the military is having is finding physically fit recruits... since your article states that 77% of young Americans are unfit and that AMONG those disqualifying faults are health concerns like obesity and mental illness I restate my assertion.... Young Americans are increasingly unfit, physically and mentally, to serve this country.



... Years ago I was young and stupid. Now years later I'm no longer young.
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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Arelor <=-

Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Assuming it can't be both?

Let's say that if your army has inner psychological conflicts then you
are in abad spot if the other side has no inner psychological conflict because Allah has commanded them to kill 'em all faggots.

I don't think that any modern sensibilities will impact one's ability
to defend oneself when someone's shooting at them.

... DESQview/386 - the only way to multitask!

Pointdexter, are you REALLY so sure of that? What about THIS guy?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-york-daily-news-journalist-firing-an-ar-15-gave-me-ptsd

Also, it's damned hard to shoot back at someone when you haven't the basic knowledge of how to operate a firearm, or how to react under stress. These are skills that are learned through training and practice. If a person so afflicted with "modern sensibilities" that they are absolutely anti-gun, they will never have the skills and training when the time comes to actually defend themselves.



... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nopants to MRO on Fri Nov 17 2023 06:05 pm

Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Nopants on Fri Nov 17 2023 09:22 am

You don't need purple hair to 'think', silly.

let me know if you need help on learning to quote, or you can
ask you wife's boyfriend when you are done playing with your action figures, fgt.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to MRO on Sat Nov 18 2023 01:38 am

That passage pretty well supports what I said in that ONE major problem the military is having is finding physically fit recruits... since your article states that 77% of young Americans are unfit and that AMONG those disqualifying faults are health concerns like obesity and mental illness I restate my assertion.... Young Americans are increasingly unfit, physically and mentally, to serve this country.

most of young people won't even sign up.
everyone else is the bottom of the barrel.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Nov 18 2023 01:44 am

... DESQview/386 - the only way to multitask!

Pointdexter, are you REALLY so sure of that? What about THIS guy?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-york-daily-news-journalist-firing-an- ar- 15-gave-me-ptsd

Also, it's damned hard to shoot back at someone when you haven't the basic knowledge of how to operate a firearm, or how to react under stress. These are skills that are learned through training and practice. If a person so afflicted with "modern sensibilities" that they are absolutely anti-gun,

that's hillarious that he's comparing a rifle with a bomb.
really sad. i hope he was lying about his experience.

I'm pretty sure I started shooting rifles when i was 11 years old.
Later on i used to go shooting with my friend and his dad and i'd use his russian sniper rifle. I was a crack shot even though my eyesight sucks.
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MRO wrote to Weatherman <=-

I'm pretty sure I started shooting rifles when i was 11 years
old. Later on i used to go shooting with my friend and his dad
and i'd use his russian sniper rifle. I was a crack shot even
though my eyesight sucks.

Nope. I call "bullshit". You're not a "crack shot" if your eyesight
sucks. Your lie there shows that you actually know NOTHING about
precision shooting, or even shooting in general.

What was the name/model of this "russian sniper rifle"? What caliber
was it? What kind of scope did it have?



... Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Nopants wrote to MRO <=-

Oh no. 'woke' in quotes.

I so enjoy seeing people who accuse others of wokeness trying to define
"woke". Without a circular reference, that is.



... Change specifics to ambiguities
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
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Weatherman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-york-daily-news-journalist-firing -an-ar-15-gave-me-ptsd

Also, it's damned hard to shoot back at someone when you haven't the
basic knowledge of how to operate a firearm, or how to react under
stress. These are skills that are learned through training and
practice. If a person so afflicted with "modern sensibilities" that
they are absolutely anti-gun, they will never have the skills and
training when the time comes to actually defend themselves.

If we're fielding an army of untrained millenials, then I suppose your
argument has merit. We were talking about a modern army that
conducts the same training, practice and discipline as usual but
includes awareness of what some would consider "woke" and your
argument makes no sense.

Watch General Milley's testimony in June 2021.




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Weatherman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

That feels like a bit of a stretch.

I find myself wondering just how long YOU served...

Oh, come on - I've seen you on the boards for years. you're better at
this than that!


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Re: Re: going to war
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Nov 18 2023 09:11 am

MRO wrote to Weatherman <=-

I'm pretty sure I started shooting rifles when i was 11 years
old. Later on i used to go shooting with my friend and his dad
and i'd use his russian sniper rifle. I was a crack shot even
though my eyesight sucks.

Nope. I call "bullshit". You're not a "crack shot" if your eyesight
sucks. Your lie there shows that you actually know NOTHING about
precision shooting, or even shooting in general.

What was the name/model of this "russian sniper rifle"? What caliber
was it? What kind of scope did it have?

dunno dude, it was decades ago. and i was a little kid. maybe i was just lucky or maybe i just had a knack. I was good at shooting the 22 rifles when i was at camp too.

it was at a shooting range in my home town.

i got no reason to lie.
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MRO wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: going to war
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Nov 18 2023 09:11 am

MRO wrote to Weatherman <=-

I'm pretty sure I started shooting rifles when i was 11 years
old. Later on i used to go shooting with my friend and his dad
and i'd use his russian sniper rifle. I was a crack shot even
though my eyesight sucks.

Nope. I call "bullshit". You're not a "crack shot" if your eyesight
sucks. Your lie there shows that you actually know NOTHING about
precision shooting, or even shooting in general.

What was the name/model of this "russian sniper rifle"? What caliber
was it? What kind of scope did it have?

dunno dude, it was decades ago. and i was a little kid. maybe i
was just lucky or maybe i just had a knack.

Or maybe you're just a lying bullshitter.

it was at a shooting range in my home town.

That's nice, and irrelevant.

i got no reason to lie.

And yet, you do anyway.



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MRO wrote to Weatherman <=-

By: Weatherman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sat Nov 18 2023 01:44 am

Pointdexter, are you REALLY so sure of that? What about THIS guy?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/new-york-daily-news-journalist-firing-an- ar- 15-gave-me-ptsd

Also, it's damned hard to shoot back at someone when you haven't the basic knowledge of how to operate a firearm, or how to react under stress. These are skills that are learned through training and practice. If a person so afflicted with "modern sensibilities" that they are absolutely anti-gun,

that's hillarious that he's comparing a rifle with a bomb.
really sad. i hope he was lying about his experience.

I'm pretty sure I started shooting rifles when i was 11 years old.
Later on i used to go shooting with my friend and his dad and i'd use
his russian sniper rifle. I was a crack shot even though my eyesight sucks. ---
= Synchronet = ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

I started shooting as a youngster with my cousins. They had a place outside of town and "back in the day" even in New York you could shoot on your own property without having the Sherrif come out and ask you what the hell you're doing. Mostly .22 and 20 and 12 gauge. I got good enough to at least qualify as Expert (no mean feat for sure) in basic training.

Russian sniper rifle immediately brings to mind the Mosin-Nagant. I've got two of those bad boys, one rifle length the other carbine length. That 7.62 x 54mm round sure is stout!



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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Weatherman <=-

Also, it's damned hard to shoot back at someone when you haven't the
basic knowledge of how to operate a firearm, or how to react under
stress. These are skills that are learned through training and
practice. If a person so afflicted with "modern sensibilities" that
they are absolutely anti-gun, they will never have the skills and
training when the time comes to actually defend themselves.

If we're fielding an army of untrained millenials, then I suppose your
argument has merit. We were talking about a modern army that
conducts the same training, practice and discipline as usual but
includes awareness of what some would consider "woke" and your
argument makes no sense.

Watch General Milley's testimony in June 2021.

Well now, I guess that's the question then, isn't it? Are today's troops REALLY undergoing the same training, practice and discipline as in earlier times? When I served our primary adversaries were political in nature, the Soviet Union and China being the top two. Our chief adversaries (based on the observation of current events) NOW are opponents who oppose us based on religion - a religion practiced by several hundred thousand members of our own military. Where we were trained to think of our opponent as being fundamentally opposed to the "American way of life" and intent on making Communism the primary political/economic system of the world, how do you train someone to consider religious foes to be fundamentally opposed to the American way of life when the American way of life is BASED ON THE FREEDOM OF RELIGION?!
I, as an agnostic who knows little about practising Islam, am supposed to consider the Muslim on the other side of the street evil and diametrically opposed to my basic way of life, but the Muslim standing next to me serving on my team is supposed to be considered a trusted ally?

No, I stand pat on the belief that wokeism and military duty are completely incompatable with each other. Our military has become LESS effective as a fighting force, partly because of diversity and inclusion training. Instead of spending time on the rifle range our soldiers are being taught to respect gender fluidity. Our only, and I mean ONLY, advantage at this point is technical in nature. We have superior technology, superior technologists and that is where the line is drawn. If you remove the push-button capability of our military we are worse off today than in the 1980s and I would dare say that the fighting force of the 1950s and 1960s were even better warriors than in the 1980s. Our military has been in decline for decades. The only thing saving our bacon is our science.


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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Weatherman <=-

Weatherman wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

That feels like a bit of a stretch.

I find myself wondering just how long YOU served...

Oh, come on - I've seen you on the boards for years. you're better at
this than that!

And yet... still unanswered is the question... For how long have YOU served in the military?


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Nopants wrote to MRO <=-

Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Nopants on Fri Nov 17 2023 09:22 am

You don't need purple hair to 'think', silly.

But having it doesn't help!


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Gamgee wrote to MRO <=-

MRO wrote to Weatherman <=-

I'm pretty sure I started shooting rifles when i was 11 years
old. Later on i used to go shooting with my friend and his dad
and i'd use his russian sniper rifle. I was a crack shot even
though my eyesight sucks.

Nope. I call "bullshit". You're not a "crack shot" if your eyesight sucks. Your lie there shows that you actually know NOTHING about precision shooting, or even shooting in general.

What was the name/model of this "russian sniper rifle"? What caliber
was it? What kind of scope did it have?

... Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Gamgee, MY eyesight isn't what it was, and I assure you it hasn't affected my ability to shoot. I have these things called "eyeglasses" that correct my failing vision. Amazing things, they actually make things that normally are unfocused appear to be well-defined and clear to my vision!

Regarding the "Russian sniper rifle" my money is on a Mosin-Nagant chambered in 7.52x54mmR. It would be a prize indeed if it actually had an original Soviet long eye-relief scope on it, but I'd doubt it. There ARE kits available for mounting scopes in place of the rear sight of the Mosin-Nagant. I have one, but haven't mounted it yet. Now that I have two Mosin-Nagants I figure the time is right to do that.

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poindexter FORTRAN wrote to Nopants <=-

Nopants wrote to MRO <=-

Oh no. 'woke' in quotes.

I so enjoy seeing people who accuse others of wokeness trying to define "woke". Without a circular reference, that is.

"Woke" - adj. To observe social justice causes in the interest of presenting the appearance of superior social morality rather than out of any actual moral imperitive.

Example. The woke white American will petition, protest and insist that American sports franchises remove mascots of various ethnic inspiration, such as the American Indian, while the Native American Guardian Association (a Native American organization) then needs to file a lawsuit petitioning the restoration of said mascots and team names, citing the fact that the original team name and mascot actually HONORED said ethnic group.

The practice of wokeism would mimic the act of factions like the Taliban and remove statues, paintings and images of Confederate military leaders rather than to use those images to educate people about the nature of the conflict and those involved on both sides. The woke would demonize those who served in the Confederacy rather than to recognize the fact that by far most soldiers of the South did not own slaves, and many were actually opposed to slavery.

The woke would rather silence and remove opposing viewpoints rather than to accept that the opposing view may be based in and on its own validity. Rather than accept the fact that the parents of a school aged daughter oppose the sharing of locker rooms and bathrooms with biological males who "identify as female" the woke would have the FBI target those parents as "domestic terrorists" and have those parents put on terrorist watch lists.

So I don't know, pondexter.. Do you see any circular references up there? I think I did a pretty decent job of describing exactly what wokeness mean to me - and to those in my particular social circle. OOOPS!!! Damn. There's that dreaded circular reference! Shit man... I guess I failed on THAT one....


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Re: Re: going to war
By: Gamgee to MRO on Sat Nov 18 2023 09:26 pm

dunno dude, it was decades ago. and i was a little kid. maybe i
was just lucky or maybe i just had a knack.

Or maybe you're just a lying bullshitter.

That's a weird thing to lie about. Do you lie all the time
and think that other people do? I think your compass is warped.

Is shooting an old rifle well when i'm a kid supposed to gain the admiration of everyone here?

it was at a shooting range in my home town.

That's nice, and irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant when it's relevant to what happened? do you know what irrelevant means?

i got no reason to lie.

And yet, you do anyway.

Maybe you are just jealous of early teens me.
I have more bad news for you. I also played basketball and soccer quite well!


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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to MRO on Sun Nov 19 2023 01:19 am

Russian sniper rifle immediately brings to mind the Mosin-Nagant. I've got two of those bad boys, one rifle length the other carbine length. That 7.62 x 54mm round sure is stout!

it was the first one i ever shot that had a sight. thankfully my friend's dad was nice enough to tell me not to press my eye up against it. he would have had a laugh and i'd have a nice black eye.
---
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 19 2023 01:40 am

includes awareness of what some would consider "woke" and your
argument makes no sense.

Watch General Milley's testimony in June 2021.

Well now, I guess that's the question then, isn't it? Are today's troops REALLY undergoing the same training, practice and discipline as in earlier times? When I served our primary adversaries were political in nature, the Soviet Union and China being the top two. Our chief adversaries (based on

Well i heard they aren't allowed to yell at them anymore. and hazing has
been cut back. i don't believe that.

Also, i saw videos of some people in bootcamp just existing and refusing orders and it was taking forever to separate them.
---
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to Gamgee on Sun Nov 19 2023 01:51 am

... Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

i love his little tagline. he is a try hard to the bitter end.

Regarding the "Russian sniper rifle" my money is on a Mosin-Nagant chambered in 7.52x54mmR. It would be a prize indeed if it actually had an original Soviet long eye-relief scope on it, but I'd doubt it. There ARE kits available for mounting scopes in place of the rear sight of the Mosin-Nagant. I have one, but haven't mounted it yet. Now that I have two Mosin-Nagants I figure the time is right to do that.

I remember it being big , heavy and black (probably something gamgee would say about the night he lost his virginity). that's about all a young teen can remember. it was fun going out shooting and then we'd switch sides working the targets for the other guys that would shoot.

Then we shot some arrows at hay bales later on. i wish i would have gone more. I think I went along 3-4 times.

I don't think my mother had my best interests in mind. she would rather i played video games or be gone all day playing basketball.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Nope. I call "bullshit". You're not a "crack shot" if your eyesight
sucks. Your lie there shows that you actually know NOTHING about
precision shooting, or even shooting in general.

What was the name/model of this "russian sniper rifle"? What caliber
was it? What kind of scope did it have?

A friend of mine I used to shoot with had an AK-47 for a while. I was not
so great with that one. OTOH, I wasn't bad with a .22, or with a
lever-action he had. It was a center fire that fired, IIRC, .38 or .357 rounds. I was also pretty good with a long-barrel .38 revolver.

That was in the late 1980s/early-mid 1990s. He is no longer with us or I'd
ask what kind of rifle that lever-action was.

My eyesight was horrible, but correctable to 20-15, back then.


* SLMR 2.1a * On a clear disk you can seek forever

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The practice of wokeism would mimic the act of factions like the Taliban and remove statues, paintings and images of Confederate military leaders rather than to use those images to educate people about the nature of the conflict an
those involved on both sides. The woke would demonize those who served in the
Confederacy rather than to recognize the fact that by far most soldiers of the
South did not own slaves, and many were actually opposed to slavery.

Not just Confederates. Do not forget that some of them were even protesting statues of Abraham Lincoln. I see a failure in our education system there.

The woke would rather silence and remove opposing viewpoints rather than to accept that the opposing view may be based in and on its own validity. Rather
than accept the fact that the parents of a school aged daughter oppose the sharing of locker rooms and bathrooms with biological males who "identify as female" the woke would have the FBI target those parents as "domestic terrorists" and have those parents put on terrorist watch lists.

They have abandoned feminism in favor of not hurting the feelings of a biological male. How ironic.

So I don't know, pondexter.. Do you see any circular references up there? I think I did a pretty decent job of describing exactly what wokeness mean to me
- and to those in my particular social circle. OOOPS!!! Damn. There's that dreaded circular reference! Shit man... I guess I failed on THAT one....

You've done quite well.


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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 19 2023 02:13 am

Alot of this definition is the context of our current political climate and in that situation exists both sides that are equaly fixed in their position. So yeah, your definition is circular in that it never intends to address the other side of the situation that DOES THE SAME SHIT.

Also, one side is not as good at creating marketing terms like "woke" and have people like yourself carry the water. Good game.



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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 19 2023 02:13 am

Definition looks correct to me...

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nopants to Weatherman on Sun Nov 19 2023 11:30 am

Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 19 2023 02:13 am

Alot of this definition is the context of our current political climate and in that situation exists both sides that are equaly fixed in their position. So yeah, your definition is circular in that it never intends to address the other side of the situation that DOES THE SAME SHIT.

Also, one side is not as good at creating marketing terms like "woke" and

you should change your name to "noquote"
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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Nopants on Sat Nov 18 2023 08:21 am

let me know if you need help on learning to quote, or you can
ask you wife's boyfriend when you are done playing with your action figures,

You caught me. I am a Python developer and use single quotes for string literals.

What's wrong with action figures? You didn't know I have a GI Joe kungfu grip?


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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to Nopants on Sun Nov 19 2023 01:43 am

You don't need purple hair to 'think', silly.

But having it doesn't help!

I could argue that it gives an otherwise marginalized person the confidence to express their ideas in an open forum so we can hear an alternative perspective other than fists at clouds.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Nopants on Mon Nov 20 2023 08:32 am

you should change your name to "noquote"

I wouldn't waste my BBS clock cycles re-quoting that.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nopants to Weatherman on Mon Nov 20 2023 03:47 pm

But having it doesn't help!

I could argue that it gives an otherwise marginalized person the confidence to express their ideas in an open forum so we can hear an alternative perspective other than fists at clouds.

yeah but you arent arguing or giving an alternative perspective.
you're just being a dork.

And i think you people deserve some fists in the clouds.
it's your fault that we are in all these messes.
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MRO wrote to all <=-

yeah but you arent arguing or giving an alternative perspective.
you're just being a dork.

Look in the mirror. We're all dorks here.



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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to all on Mon Nov 20 2023 07:57 pm

And i think you people deserve some fists in the clouds.

I don't have purple hair, but I cant hear those people over the SUPER DUTY pickups that hold no cargo except fragile egos. I am listening though, because I think the purple hair will have something more interesting to say.

I'm bored of the people at the mic currently. Shut the f up already.


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Re: Re: going to war
By: Weatherman to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Nov 19 2023 02:13 am

The practice of wokeism would mimic the act of factions like the Taliban and remove statues, paintings and images of Confederate
military leaders rather than to use those images to educate people about the nature of the conflict and those involved on both
sides. The woke would demonize those who served in the Confederacy rather than to recognize the fact that by far most soldiers
of the South did not own slaves, and many were actually opposed to slavery.

Nah, take all the bullshit down. A majority of that stuff went up in the Jim Crow era for intimidation. We have wikipedia, the history will be okay.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to Weatherman on Tue Nov 21 2023 02:58 pm

Nah, take all the bullshit down. A majority of that stuff went up in the Jim Crow era for intimidation. We have wikipedia, the history will be okay.

yeah wikipedia , the thing anybody can edit.

i've already seen truth erased from history via the internet numerous times. ---
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Nah, take all the bullshit down. A majority of that stuff went up in the Jim Cr
w era for intimidation. We have wikipedia, the history will be okay.

Wikipedia, where anyone can edit and spin anything however they want.
Where they had to lock down the editing of the "Recession" article because someone kept editing it to match the definition that the current White House prefered to make sure whatever situation we are in doesn't match the definition.

Yes, that is a very good idea. <rolls eyes>


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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Wed Nov 22 2023 03:24 am

Nah, take all the bullshit down. A majority of that stuff went up in the Jim Crow era for intimidation. We have wikipedia, the history will be okay.

yeah wikipedia , the thing anybody can edit.

i've already seen truth erased from history via the internet numerous times.

That was just an example. But we don't need statues put up decades after the end of the civil war for shitty reasons to keep our history.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Wed Nov 22 2023 04:13 pm

yeah wikipedia , the thing anybody can edit.

i've already seen truth erased from history via the internet numerous times.

That was just an example.

Your wikipedia example was poor. you suggest we track our history using a medium that is public and anyone can modify at any minute.

Then you say what i think you mean is we don't need statues?

That was just an example. But we don't need statues put up decades after the end of the civil war for shitty reasons to keep our history.

Why do you care about statues? Why must they be tore down?
It's a selfish stupid, pointless thing to do that accomplishes nothing.

Erasing history and removing historical land marks does nothing but create more ignorance.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Wed Nov 22 2023 09:54 am

Nah, take all the bullshit down. A majority of that stuff went up in the Jim Cr
w era for intimidation. We have wikipedia, the history will be okay.

Wikipedia, where anyone can edit and spin anything however they want.
Where they had to lock down the editing of the "Recession" article because someone kept editing it to match the definition that the current White House prefered to make sure whatever situation we are in doesn't match the definition.

Yes, that is a very good idea. <rolls eyes>

Just an example, use whatever you are comfortable with. To sum up wikipedia as an anyone can edit failure is telling though.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to Dumas Walker on Wed Nov 22 2023 04:44 pm

match the definition.

Yes, that is a very good idea. <rolls eyes>

Just an example, use whatever you are comfortable with. To sum up wikipedia as an anyone can edit failure is telling though.

Well, wikipedia is not a reliable source of information for that reason and many others.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Wed Nov 22 2023 06:35 pm

Your wikipedia example was poor. you suggest we track our history using a medium that is public and anyone can modify at any minute.

Then you say what i think you mean is we don't need statues?
Why do you care about statues? Why must they be tore down?
It's a selfish stupid, pointless thing to do that accomplishes nothing.

I wasn't hiding the fact we don't need confederate statues put up decades after the civil war was over. I was pretty clear in that.

Erasing history and removing historical land marks does nothing but create more ignorance.

It's not erasing history at all. Amazon is littered with books, youtube is filled with videos if wikipedia is too editable for you.

These statues are testaments to Jim Crow, not history. It does not remove anything other than a mistake that was made to take them down.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Thu Nov 23 2023 07:35 am

Re: Re: going to war

Then you say what i think you mean is we don't need statues?
Why do you care about statues? Why must they be tore down?
It's a selfish stupid, pointless thing to do that accomplishes nothing.

I wasn't hiding the fact we don't need confederate statues put up decades after the civil war was over. I was pretty clear in that.

you're not the one to decide if we need statues or not.

what do you care? did a statue rape you as a child?
anybody that wants historical statues is stupid.
suggesting wikipedia and youtube instead is stupid.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Weatherman on Sat Nov 18 2023 08:43 am

If we're fielding an army of untrained millenials, then I suppose your
argument has merit. We were talking about a modern army that
conducts the same training, practice and discipline as usual but
includes awareness of what some would consider "woke" and your
argument makes no sense.

The argument is that if you took a group of random dudes 50 years ago and had them join the army, you would not get complaints from them because the gas masks are umcomfortable, or because the rocket launcher weights so much, because if you complained you weren't man enough.

Now you have trainees who will outright refuse to wear the gas mask for practice because it would ruin their hair style, which is exactly what you get when you try to bring in people from the wrong demographic group.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Weatherman on Sat Nov 18 2023 08:43 am

If we're fielding an army of untrained millenials, then I suppose your
argument has merit. We were talking about a modern army that
conducts the same training, practice and discipline as usual but
includes awareness of what some would consider "woke" and your
argument makes no sense.

Also, there is the point that the preparation military forces of old and modernmilitary forced are not trained the same at all.

You check some of the WWII and Cold War materials and you could piss yourself. The videos from Fairbairn training greek soldiers come to mind. Chuck Norris looks under his bed just in case Fairbairn is lurking there.

The goal of manuals such as Get Tough or even Kill or Get Killed (which was forpolice work) were to psychologiclly to become meat grinders, and the core
concepts in those book were that a) you had to tear the enemy to pieces and b) in order to accomplish "a" you need to prevent the enemy from tearing you to pieces first.

Fast forward and, as far as I have heard, US troops being fielded in the MIddleEast are receiving training as policemen rather than soldiers. The objective
now is to pacify regions occupied, so instead of being taught to skew rebels with bayonets, soldiers are taught to use less-than-lethal weapons and ROE and about behaving within a polite framework.

So yeah, priorities have changed according to modern preferences and so have goals and tactics and training.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nopants to Weatherman on Sun Nov 19 2023 11:30 am

Also, one side is not as good at creating marketing terms like "woke" and ha > people like yourself carry the water. Good game.

I think the Social Justice Crowd is notorious for their ability to crank out marketable terms in order to label both friends and enemies, if just because when you play Identitary Politics you need a way to separate people into Identitary Groups so you can profit from the division.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nopants to Weatherman on Sun Nov 19 2023 11:30 am

Also, one side is not as good at creating marketing terms like "woke" and ha > people like yourself carry the water. Good game.

Also, if memory server well, Black LIves Matter were among the first to popularize the term, and Wikipedia seems to agree:

"The term woke gained further popularity in the 2010s. Over time, it became increasingly connected to matters beyond race such as gender and identities perceived as marginalized. During the 2014 Ferguson protests, the phrase was popularized by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. "

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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Wed Nov 22 2023 04:13 pm

That was just an example. But we don't need statues put up decades after the

The problem is not the statues or symbols themselves. I am not opposed to moving many monuments to ideologies we no longer endorse to a museum or something.

The problem is there are groups trying to obtain political profit by doing it, and specifically, trying to rewrite History in the process.

See, Republicans lost the Spanish Civil war, so they need to take revenge by unburying the General who won and putting the coffin away. They also need to take revenge renaming streets with names of Republican politicians and Generalsand ensuring no street is named after a guy from the National side.

This people does not want to heal a thing. They are just playing the Spanish Civil War in their heads. This is an unhealthy thing to do and sane people should fight in order not to be dragged into their insane world.

For the record, I am far from a fan of the National side.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Arelor to Nopants on Thu Nov 23 2023 12:47 pm

I think the Social Justice Crowd is notorious for their ability to crank out marketable terms in order to label both friends and enemies, if just because when you play Identitary Politics you need a way to separate people into Identitary Groups so you can profit from the division.

I agree. The trick is to identify theses people on either side and ignore them. Even if they say some things that tickle your jimmy. If you give them an inch they will take a mile.

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Nah, take all the bullshit down. A majority of that stuff went up in the Jim Cr
w era for intimidation. We have wikipedia, the history will be okay.

Wikipedia, where anyone can edit and spin anything however they want. Where they had to lock down the editing of the "Recession" article because someone kept editing it to match the definition that the current White Hous
prefered to make sure whatever situation we are in doesn't match the definition.

Yes, that is a very good idea. <rolls eyes>

Just an example, use whatever you are comfortable with. To sum up wikipedia as
n anyone can edit failure is telling though.

"Failure" is your word, not mine, which is why I have over-quoted here.
Maybe your use of that word is telling?

I use wikipedia regularly. It is good for many things. The cronological timing of events would be one -- like did this album by this group come out before or after that one? For political and social reasons an event
happened, you'd better take it with a grain of salt because anyone indeed can edit it.

I have edited a few BBS related pages. MRO has admited to editing pages.
Would *you* want either of our interpretations to be used as evidence that "history will be okay"?


* SLMR 2.1a * There are no answers, only cross-references.

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That was just an example. But we don't need statues put up decades after the en
of the civil war for shitty reasons to keep our history.

Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers.
Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area. They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

Those people still have living relatives but, hey, it is again not cool to remember them, so let's not.


* SLMR 2.1a * What's a 6.9? 69 interrupted by a period.

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Also, one side is not as good at creating marketing terms like "woke" and ha >> people like yourself carry the water. Good game.

Also, if memory server well, Black LIves Matter were among the first to popularize the term, and Wikipedia seems to agree:

"The term woke gained further popularity in the 2010s. Over time, it became increasingly connected to matters beyond race such as gender and identities perceived as marginalized. During the 2014 Ferguson protests, the phrase was popularized by Black Lives Matter (BLM) activists seeking to raise awareness about police shootings of African Americans. "

I did not think that "conservatives" coined that term. Thanks for proving
that they did not. Funny, a group likes a term so long as it is only them labeling themselves as such, and not so much when others pick up on it (and what it really means).


* SLMR 2.1a * Are you a Klingon, or is that a turtle on your head?

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Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were
not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers. Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area. They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war. We don't build statues for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are. That goes for any war we've been in...we don't have statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or anyone else, and they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally fought for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, that's goofy.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Sun Nov 26 2023 12:00 pm

I have edited a few BBS related pages. MRO has admited to editing pages. Would *you* want either of our interpretations to be used as evidence that "history will be okay"?

i have edited pages with fake info and added sources to back it up just to piss off people. If you cite a book nobody is going to get that book and verify. One time I used beam my up scotty as a reference.
"Beam Me Up Scottie: Pippen, Patrick: 9781411609877
https://www.amazon.com > Beam-Me-Scottie-Patrick-...
Beam Me Up Scottie is based on the real life story of Patrick Pippen, nephew up basketball legend Scottie Pippen. From streetball to the lifestyles of the ..."


The last time i edited wikipedia it was the renegade page and telegard page because TJ is trying to rewrite history. i just gave up. edit wars are for losers.

Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be used in an official compacity.

Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Sun Nov 26 2023 01:55 pm

That was just an example. But we don't need statues put up decades after the en
of the civil war for shitty reasons to keep our history.

Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers. Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area. They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

Those people still have living relatives but, hey, it is again not cool to remember them, so let's not.

also bring back uncle ben and the land of lakes woman and aunt jamima.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: esc to Dumas Walker on Sun Nov 26 2023 10:06 pm

Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers. Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area. They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war. We don't build statues for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are. That goes for any war we've been in...we don't have statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or

If you don't learn from your history you are doomed to repeat it.
the civil war is an important part of history. tearing away statues and editing history books is stupidity.

anyone else, and they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally fought for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, that's goofy.

That's not really what the civil war was about. that was a small part, but it was due to money as usual with rich white powerful people. also the northern states were not defending the southern states from bandits that were causing hell.

Anyways, ripping down a statue does no good at all. it's not bringing anybody back, it's not ending anything and it won't appease the fucking retards who get offended for the sake of being offended.
Most of these people are the ones that spray paint KKK at their own schools or workplaces or hang nooses and get exposed as frauds.
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esc wrote to Dumas Walker <=-

Some were put up long after because immediately after such things were
not welcome. Example - any memorials to war dead who were not Union soldiers. Not to individuals, but the whole of the dead from an area.
They may have fought on the losing side, but they were someone's fathers/brothers/sons.

More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war.

Just to expand that a bit - more Americans died in the Civil War than in
*ALL* other wars the USA has been involved in.... *COMBINED*. Think
about that for a second and it sends a shiver.

We don't build statues for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are.

In the case of the Civil War, the enemies were *Americans*. I think
that changes things a little. We *do* care who their families were.
Well, we *should* care anyway.

That goes for any war we've been in...we don't have
statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or anyone else, and they had
families.

They were not Americans.

Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally
fought for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have
statues of them, that's goofy.

That really isn't why they fought. Mostly they did so because they were
told to. The issue of slavery was actually not the main driver for the
Civil War. A brush-up on American History might be good for you.

Here's another way of looking at it. What if your family, going back
6-8 generations, was from South Carolina. Or Virginia. Or Georgia.
What if your G-G-G-Grandfather had been a Confederate soldier, doing
what he was told. Do you think your family (after him) would have been
proud of people like Robert E. Lee? Would they have been in favor of a monument/statue of him? Of course they would have. If you still lived
in a "Confederate" state today, and were proud of your heritage, and
your *FAMILY* history, would you perhaps think differently than you do
at the moment? Those people (today) are just as much an American
as you are. Ponder that for a few...


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Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Now you have trainees who will outright refuse to wear the gas mask for practice because it would ruin their hair style, which is exactly what
you get when you try to bring in people from the wrong demographic
group.

Citation?


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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Thu Nov 23 2023 10:08 am

I wasn't hiding the fact we don't need confederate statues put up decades after the civil war was over. I was pretty clear in that.

you're not the one to decide if we need statues or not.

what do you care? did a statue rape you as a child?
anybody that wants historical statues is stupid.
suggesting wikipedia and youtube instead is stupid.

I didn't say any of this, you are a trip. I'll take the loss for not being able to communicate my point I guess.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Sun Nov 26 2023 12:00 pm

"Failure" is your word, not mine, which is why I have over-quoted here. Maybe your use of that word is telling?

I use wikipedia regularly. It is good for many things. The cronological timing of events would be one -- like did this album by this group come out before or after that one? For political and social reasons an event happened, you'd better take it with a grain of salt because anyone indeed can edit it.

I have edited a few BBS related pages. MRO has admited to editing pages. Would *you* want either of our interpretations to be used as evidence that "history will be okay"?

Sure, you can click to see who has edited what and for what reasons. There's a full log. It's a great resource and I don't think southern generals will be erased because of statues. Anyone can create a website as well.

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More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war. We don't build statue
for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are. That goes for any w
we've been in...we don't have statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or anyone else, d they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally foug
for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, tha
s goofy.

The difference here is that the "enemy" deaths were also Americans. Also,
your assumption that the soldiers were fighting for the right to own slaves
is also false in most cases and shows a lack of understanding of what all
was going on during that time.

In my area, a border state, many people were not fighting against the Union until Union soldiers "visited" their area and did something stupid. Then
they got angry and joined the confederates. Some of them lost
non-combatant family members to these stupid things. Others, who thought that slavery was not right still joined the confederates because they believed the federal government had overstepped their constitutional rights and/or was
not providing Southern states with the same service as their Norhtern neighbors.

We also had MANY cases where an otherwise Union family lost a confederate son.

So the statue in question, because it was here in this state, was here to remember people like them. It is still here, it just got moved out of Leftyexcrementholeville into another town where people have not lost their minds (and where the local education system is higher rated).

Maybe we don't need statues, but your statements above do prove that we
need a better education system, at least in whatever area you attended
school in.


* SLMR 2.1a * How do you know if you run out of invisible ink?

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Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be used in
an official compacity.

Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

Indeed. People seem to forget about those.


* SLMR 2.1a * I'm not tense, just terribly A*L*E*R*T.

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also bring back uncle ben and the land of lakes woman and aunt jamima.

I think the point here was to remove any proof of minority involvement in the founding and/or success of some of those products, and not whatever excuse was used.


* SLMR 2.1a * Limit Congress to 2 terms: one in office, one in jail!

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Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Sun Nov 26 2023 09:03 pm

Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Now you have trainees who will outright refuse to wear the gas mask for > Ar> practice because it would ruin their hair style, which is exactly what
you get when you try to bring in people from the wrong demographic group.

Citation?

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Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Sun Nov 26 2023 09:03 pm

Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Now you have trainees who will outright refuse to wear the gas mask for practice because it would ruin their hair style, which is exactly what you get when you try to bring in people from the wrong demographic group.

Citation?

here ya go.
they got this thing call google.

https://i.imgur.com/hkCHmwa.png
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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Mon Nov 27 2023 07:57 am

what do you care? did a statue rape you as a child?
anybody that wants historical statues is stupid.
suggesting wikipedia and youtube instead is stupid.

I didn't say any of this, you are a trip. I'll take the loss for not being able to communicate my point I guess.

you advocating the removal of historical statues.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to Dumas Walker on Mon Nov 27 2023 08:01 am

Sure, you can click to see who has edited what and for what reasons. There's a full log. It's a great resource and I don't think southern generals will be erased because of statues. Anyone can create a website as well.

yeah and anybody can make 100 accounts. wikipedia is an online mmorpg.
anybody that considers it a source of reliable information is sad.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to ESC on Mon Nov 27 2023 11:15 am

else, d they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally foug
for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, tha
s goofy.

The difference here is that the "enemy" deaths were also Americans. Also, your assumption that the soldiers were fighting for the right to own slaves is also false in most cases and shows a lack of understanding of what all was going on during that time.

People don't like complicated information.
It's easier to believe it was a fight of good VS evil.
There were thousands of factors that divided our country.

Furthermore, nobody talks about indentured servitude which was just as
bad and went on longer than slavery.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Nov 27 2023 10:51 am

Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be used in
an official compacity.

Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

My hometown's library has been reduced to an internet cafe where you can
see people play hardcore porn. then there's the homeless going around bothering people.
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People don't like complicated information.
It's easier to believe it was a fight of good VS evil.
There were thousands of factors that divided our country.

Furthermore, nobody talks about indentured servitude which was just as
bad and went on longer than slavery.

If you do some research into how indentured servitude evolved into slavery
in the US (specifically in Virgina), it is some interesting reading. One
of the first persons who successfully argued in court that he owned other people was not white, and that case was then used in future cases as proof
that slavery was legal.

Also, there were black soldiers who fought and died in the Civil War... fighting for the South.

But like you said, that is very complicated information and probably is
very unliked by most products of our current education system.


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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to esc on Mon Nov 27 2023 04:28 am

That's not really what the civil war was about. that was a small part, but it was due to money as usual with rich white powerful people. also the northern states were not defending the southern states from bandits that were causing hell.

Maybe they should make statues of the declaration causes? It wasn't a small part, it was the main part.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Mon Nov 27 2023 10:51 am

Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be used in
an official compacity.

Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

Libraries are way more convienient and informative than statues, you are right.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to Dumas Walker on Tue Nov 28 2023 12:27 pm

Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

Libraries are way more convienient and informative than statues, you are right.

you really have a warped sense of thought, dude.

I suggest you visit virginia and experience the history of the various locations.
it might enlighten you.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to The Lizard Master on Tue Nov 28 2023 06:35 pm

Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

Libraries are way more convienient and informative than statues, you are right.

you really have a warped sense of thought, dude.

I suggest you visit virginia and experience the history of the various locations.
it might enlighten you.

I have. Haven't spent as much time in Virginia as I have in Georgia/Ten though. Very presumptuous.

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Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Do you really want me to phone an officer from the Paratroopers Brigade
so he can post his experiences here? Because he would tell me to get
lost.

If you're implying that this was first-hand information and not
published somewhere, I'd think that was awfully convenient, or should
have been cited that this was first-hand, non-confirmable information in
the first place.



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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Wed Nov 29 2023 08:38 am

I suggest you visit virginia and experience the history of the various locations.
it might enlighten you.

I have. Haven't spent as much time in Virginia as I have in Georgia/Ten though. Very presumptuous.

no i was just giving you the benefit of the doubt. now you're even more dense than i imagined.
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Libraries are way more convienient and informative than statues, you are right.

Coming across historical sites during my travels is often what makes me research things.

OTOH, being able to drive by what appears to be just an open field is
probably a lot more convienent, for someone who doesn't want to be bothered
by things that might make them learn, than it is to drive by it and see
some monument or historical marker that might hurt their feelings.

Here in my town we have a large statue to a man named Gobbels. In his
early political career, he shot and killed someone and pretty much got away with it. Later in his career, he used his position as President of the
State Senate to manipulate things in order to change the results of an
election and have the actual Governor-elect run out of the state.

Now, I don't think we should have such a statue but, if you do some
research, the story gets even more interesting.

This was around 1900. While states south of here had settled into their
Jim Crow ways, Kentucky had started electing Republicans and was more progressive than their neighbors. The Democrats, being mostly Dixiecrats
at the time, really did not like this.

Gobbels was a Democrat but not a Dixiecrat. So his party went along with
what he was up to in order to wrestle power away from the Republicans.
Once he was named Governor-elect, all Hell broke loose, and he ultimately
was shot and eventually died.

The Republican SOS was blamed and tried for it. However, Gobbels didn't
die immediately and died claiming he'd been poisoned. There is a show that sometimes airs on our local PBS network called "damn bad oysters" (his last words) that goes into great detail about his life, and also the evidence
that he could have been correct about what killed him.

Because he stole the election, the Lt. Governor, an ardent Dixiecrat, became Governor. Something I am sure Gobbels didn't intend but that did happen. Our state quickly fell inline with the rest of our Jim Crow neighbors, and was
set back about 60 years in the process.

So, while I don't think we should have a statue that commemorates a
murderer who stole an election and was eventually murdered himself, if it
was not there I probably wouldn't have bothered to learn anything about how
our state wound up like it did. I am willing to live with the statue being there so long as it might cause others to research what happened then.yy


* SLMR 2.1a * Repartee: An insult wearing a suit and tie.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Tue Nov 28 2023 06:23 am

If you're implying that this was first-hand information and not
published somewhere, I'd think that was awfully convenient, or should
have been cited that this was first-hand, non-confirmable information in
the first place.

I said all of this was hearsay from talking to actual officers early on in the thread.

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Wikipedia should only be for entertainment. not to prove a point or be u in
an official compacity.

Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias and written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who
wrote it are some how less flawed.

For every person looking to 'erase' history on wikipedia I would imagine
there are 10 who proudly hang a confederate flag in their front yard watching those pages like a hawk ready to undo any tampering.

Fun experiment, go and try to edit any page of even moderate importance with something subtle that changes the narrative and see how long it stays up for.

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yeah and anybody can make 100 accounts. wikipedia is an online mmorpg. anybody that considers it a source of reliable information is sad.

Scientific, historical and other societies have been digging into Wikipedia
for almost 20 years now to test just how reliable it is and the answer
usually comes back the same, it's 90x larger than Brittanica and more
accurate, more up to date and less biased on average.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/evidence-suggests-wikipedia-is-accurate-and-rel iable-when-are-we-going-to-start-taking-it-seriously-20220913-p5bhl3.html

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Re: Re: going to war
By: unc0nnected to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 03 2023 09:58 pm

Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias

and
written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because

who has?

written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who
wrote it are some how less flawed.

yeah because written material is less flawed. it's vetted and curated by professionals.

not retards.

For every person looking to 'erase' history on wikipedia I would imagine there are 10 who proudly hang a confederate flag in their front yard watching those pages like a hawk ready to undo any tampering.

those people are easy to deal with if you're smart enough. the easiest way is to become one of them. befriend them and then they will defend you and whatever you do.

Fun experiment, go and try to edit any page of even moderate importance with something subtle that changes the narrative and see how long it stays up for.

already done it before.
wikipedia is not a notable source of information. it's sad that people believe it is.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: unc0nnected to MRO on Sun Dec 03 2023 10:03 pm

yeah and anybody can make 100 accounts. wikipedia is an online mmorpg. anybody that considers it a source of reliable information is sad.

Scientific, historical and other societies have been digging into Wikipedia for almost 20 years now to test just how reliable it is and the answer usually comes back the same, it's 90x larger than Brittanica and more

the reliable parts are those stolen from brittanica and other notable sources.

i'm not sure if it's 90% larger, but if it is, it's probably because it's polluted with bullshit articles about everything.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/evidence-suggests-wikipedia-is-accurate-and- rel iable-when-are-we-going-to-start-taking-it-seriously-20220913-p5bhl3.html

no thanks.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: unc0nnected to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 03 2023 09:58 pm

Real research is libraries is where you find much reliable information.

Indeed. People seem to forget about those.

They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias and written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who wrote it are some how less flawed.

I've wondered about this too. Wikipedia might not be perfect, but it can be corrected in real-time.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nightfox to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 09:26 am

Yeah the articles on wikipedia regarding modern conflicts such as the Israeli-hamas conflict are fairly comprehensive, and have a large body of people actively working to update the article at all time of the day.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: unc0nnected to Dumas Walker on Sun Dec 03 2023 09:58 pm

They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias and > written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it' > on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who
wrote it are some how less flawed.

Wikipedia is not a primary source of information, but it on encyclopedias and written references. At least the official stance is you cannot post anything unless it comes from what they deem a reputable source.

I don't count myself as a Wikipedia supporter because what they deem a valid source is a voluble thing. If they dislike your softare project, the software'sdocumentation is not a valid source of information to use as a reference for
the project's goals or hardware requirinments (!).

But it gets better. If they dislike the project enough then they won't accept an article in Linux Magazine Pro from a third party author.

Wikipedia is nice for finding general information about a subject (such as "What is X?") and finding listings (such as the titles of the songs on some albums). It is also nice for gathering some trivia. It should, however, not be taken as something different from an encyclopedia put together by diferent people who have their own phobias.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: unc0nnected to MRO on Sun Dec 03 2023 10:03 pm

Scientific, historical and other societies have been digging into Wikipedia for almost 20 years now to test just how reliable it is and the answer usually comes back the same, it's 90x larger than Brittanica and more accurate, more up to date and less biased on average.

Refutation follows:

https://corporate.britannica.com/britannica_nature_response.pdf

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nightfox to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 09:26 am

encyclopedias and written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or the people who wrote it are some how less flawed.

I've wondered about this too. Wikipedia might not be perfect, but it can be corrected in real-time.

'correction' is in the eye of the person who edits it. that's what the problem is. at best, wikipedia is accurate due to it's plagorism of more reliable sources.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Kingoffrogs to Nightfox on Mon Dec 04 2023 12:20 pm

Re: Re: going to war
By: Nightfox to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 09:26 am

Yeah the articles on wikipedia regarding modern conflicts such as the Israeli-hamas conflict are fairly comprehensive, and have a large body of people actively working to update the article at all time of the day.

that's why i call it a mmorpg.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Arelor to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 02:29 pm

Re: Re: going to war
By: unc0nnected to MRO on Sun Dec 03 2023 10:03 pm

Scientific, historical and other societies have been digging into Wikipedia for almost 20 years now to test just how reliable it is and the answer usually comes back the same, it's 90x larger than Brittanica and more accurate, more up to date and less biased on average.

Refutation follows:

https://corporate.britannica.com/britannica_nature_response.pdf

the thing is, wikipedia has too much of the human element in it.
people get attached to articles and subjects like they belong to them.
they get emotional. People taint the information to their liking or out of spite.

There are people who have worked their way up into the wikipedia ranks by building friendships and kissing ass. they have their own agendas that they and their friends follow.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Dec 05 2023 08:37 am

problem is. at best, wikipedia is accurate due to it's plagorism of more reliable sources.

Plagarism? I remember Wikipedia saying it's against the rule to post original information on Wikipedia, and anything you put there must have a citation of another resource. Basically, Wikipedia's rules are that it's to be used as a reference based on other sources. I guess you could call that "plagarism" but I don't know if that's an accurate term.

Nightfox

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They have done countless studies on this, when compared to encyclopedias and written references Wikipedia is more accurate more of the time. Because it's on paper or in a Library people assume the information or th
people who wrote it are some how less flawed.

I've wondered about this too. Wikipedia might not be perfect, but it can be co
rected in real-time.

It can also be screwed up in real time.

I cannot speak for most of them, but back in the 1980's you could by a
"year book" from World Book that included updates to any articles that
already existed as well as new articles for new events, in order to keep
your set updated.


* SLMR 2.1a * Adolescence - the time between puberty and adultery.

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Wikipedia is nice for finding general information about a subject (such as "What is X?") and finding listings (such as the titles of the songs on some albums). It is also nice for gathering some trivia.

Pretty much what I use it for. +1.


* SLMR 2.1a * Objects in taglines are closer than they appear.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Nightfox to MRO on Tue Dec 05 2023 09:04 am

Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Dec 05 2023 08:37 am

problem is. at best, wikipedia is accurate due to it's plagorism of more reliable sources.

Plagarism? I remember Wikipedia saying it's against the rule to post original information on Wikipedia, and anything you put there must have a

man are you gullable.

citation of another resource. Basically, Wikipedia's rules are that it's to be used as a reference based on other sources. I guess you could call that "plagarism" but I don't know if that's an accurate term.

their content is stolen from other sources. that's basically how it all started and keeps going except for minor edits.

furthermore you can post info without references. someone puts a 'citation needed' tag but you can delete that at at time when the person does not notice or care to police it.

damn, you people really believe in wikipedia, don't you. that's sad.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Nightfox on Tue Dec 05 2023 10:45 pm

problem is. at best, wikipedia is accurate due to it's plagorism of
more reliable sources.

Plagarism? I remember Wikipedia saying it's against the rule to post
original information on Wikipedia, and anything you put there must have a

man are you gullable.

I was just stating a rule they have. How is that being gullable? It doesn't necessarily mean everyone follows the rule.

furthermore you can post info without references. someone puts a 'citation needed' tag but you can delete that at at time when the person does not notice or care to police it.

Yeah, I've seen wrong information on Wikipedia, and articles saying 'citation needed', and I tend to be skeptical of those articles.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: going to war
By: esc to Dumas Walker on Sun Nov 26 2023 10:06 pm

More Americans died in the Civil War than any other war. We don't build statues for our enemies, and we don't care who their families are. That goes for any war we've been in...we don't have statues of Bin Laden or Hitler or anyone else, and they had families. Let's not forget that confederate soldiers literally fought for the right to own human slaves. No, we shouldn't have statues of them, that's goofy.

You are wrong about many things here. First of all, the majority of people living in the south did not have slaves and had no interest in slavery. That's not what the war was about. It was more about wanting to have more control over local laws and taxes.

Also, people in the south were Americans and they had relatives living in the north. Many families had family members fighting on both sides. Some fought for the north and some fought for the south. They weren't anti-American, they were anti-government, just like many people living in the United States today and the only way they could see they would achieve equal control was to secede from the union.

Plus, you build statues to remember history - something that young people are very bad at. Many kids (thanks to a distorted liberal education) can't even tell you what the capital of our country is or how many states we have. And to forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Alonzo to esc on Wed Dec 13 2023 11:11 am

are very bad at. Many kids (thanks to a distorted liberal education) can't even tell you what the capital of our country is or how many states we have. And to forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

I have no idea what they teach kids in school these days. I don't remeber by kids having a history class or what history they were taught? Maybe they were teaching them my generations era 60's - 70's? I know they knew who JFK was and Martin Luther King. But civil war? No way. BTW. Even though the south lost the slaves were still not free. It took many many years later to abolish slavery. The Civil War was just a starting point. The real question is when were blacks treated as equals?
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Alonzo to esc on Wed Dec 13 2023 11:11 am

You are wrong about many things here. First of all, the majority of people living in the south did not have slaves and had no interest in slavery. That's not what the war was about. It was more about wanting to have more control over local laws and taxes.

Also, people in the south were Americans and they had relatives living in the north. Many families had family members fighting on both sides. Some fought for the north and some fought for the south. They weren't anti-American, they were anti-government, just like many people living in the United States today and the only way they could see they would achieve equal control was to secede from the union.

Plus, you build statues to remember history - something that young people are very bad at. Many kids (thanks to a distorted liberal education) can't even tell you what the capital of our country is or how many states we have. And to forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

people are also generally dumb. the civil war was very complicated. it's easier to teach that it was good guys vs bad guys and it was all about slavery.

The north fought to stop the emancipation. the south fought because they were being shafted by the govt and they were sick of it.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Hustler to Alonzo on Wed Dec 13 2023 10:01 pm

I have no idea what they teach kids in school these days. I don't remeber by kids having a history class or what history they were taught? Maybe they were teaching them my generations era 60's - 70's? I know they knew who JFK was and Martin Luther King. But civil war? No way. BTW. Even though the

yeah they had a history class. there are state laws that mandate what classes need to be taught.
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Alonzo to esc on Wed Dec 13 2023 11:11 am

forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

You know, we didn't have toilets for like a thousand years just because some idiots decided they wanted nothing to do with a particular civilization and completely burried all evidence of their toilet tech.

What would happen if, at the height of cancel culture, there was a rumor that the inventor of the toilet was a racist and a rapist? :D

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Phigan to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 11:26 am

Re: Re: going to war
By: Alonzo to esc on Wed Dec 13 2023 11:11 am

forget history is to repeat it. It's important to learn from the country's mistakes.

You know, we didn't have toilets for like a thousand years just because some idiots decided they wanted nothing to do with a particular civilization and completely burried all evidence of their toilet tech.

What would happen if, at the height of cancel culture, there was a rumor that the inventor of the toilet was a racist and a rapist? :D

james t crapper was a racist! rip down all the toilets!
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Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 08:11 am

people are also generally dumb. the civil war was very complicated. it's easier to teach that it was good guys vs bad guys and it was all about slavery.

The north fought to stop the emancipation. the south fought because they were being shafted by the govt and they were sick of it.

lolz

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Re: Re: going to war
By: The Lizard Master to MRO on Fri Dec 15 2023 09:00 am

Re: Re: going to war
By: MRO to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 08:11 am

people are also generally dumb. the civil war was very complicated.
it's easier to teach that it was good guys vs bad guys and it was all about slavery.

The north fought to stop the emancipation. the south fought because they were being shafted by the govt and they were sick of it.

lolz

lolz all you want. that's how it went down.
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What would happen if, at the height of cancel culture, there was a rumor that the inventor of the toilet was a racist and a rapist? :D

I have a feeling that some of them would be willing to ignore it to keep
their toilets, but we would have had some wackos (probably the same ones
that claim that only right-wingers are wackos) that would have started
going in their backyards (or other people's).

Come to think of it, maybe that is why so many people crap in the streets
in SF??


* SLMR 2.1a * SO WHO NAMED YOU "TASTE POLICE" ANYWAY?

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Phigan to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 11:26 am

You know, we didn't have toilets for like a thousand years just because some idiots decided they wanted nothing to do with a particular civilization and completely burried all evidence of their toilet tech.

They would most certainly come up with a reason to still use them. Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry Potter even though Rowling is a transphobe, but they sure as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

Can't separate art from the artist until it's convenient for them to....

/z
_____
www.xadara.com

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Hello Kurisu!

Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry
Potter even though Rowling is a transphobe, but they sure
as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

It is a shame when having an opinion about <something> makes a
person labelled as a <something>phobe.

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Kurisu to Phigan on Fri Dec 15 2023 02:58 pm

They would most certainly come up with a reason to still use them. Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry Potter even though Rowling is a transphobe, but they sure as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

what the fuck is a transphobe.

someone that believes men cant get periods?

she said dumbledore was gay so there's that.
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Re: going to war
By: Ogg to Kurisu on Fri Dec 15 2023 09:15 pm

It is a shame when having an opinion about <something> makes a
person labelled as a <something>phobe.

Quite the example of many peoples very black-or-white thinking. There can't be any nuance, it immediately has to be this extremely strong buzzword we've chosen and can't be anything else.

Ironically that serves my point just as well, because if they treat her opinion as being that level of severity, then the fact they, in this one case, separate art from the artist means they are using one hell of a double standard.
_____
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Re: going to war
By: Kurisu to Ogg on Sat Dec 16 2023 06:10 am

Re: going to war
By: Ogg to Kurisu on Fri Dec 15 2023 09:15 pm

It is a shame when having an opinion about <something> makes a
person labelled as a <something>phobe.

Quite the example of many peoples very black-or-white thinking. There can't be any nuance, it immediately has to be this extremely strong buzzword we've chosen and can't be anything else.

Ironically that serves my point just as well, because if they treat her opinion as being that level of severity, then the fact they, in this one case, separate art from the artist means they are using one hell of a double standard.

There's that and there's another thing they do if you pay attention to mainstream media.

If someone goes against the agenda they say they are crazy.

Like Kanye West is totally biopolar yet everything he said is actually true if you step aside and examine current media and look at people who are against what you can call liberal agendas or ACTUALLY just the agenda of the white guys that run everything in the world.

The media sets the pace to what people should be thinking, and eventually half or more of the people follow along.

Look at Elon Musk. He bought twitter which was eventually exposed as a propaganda machine. Twitter was a company that was left leaning and one sided. Its job was to squash and shut up the other side. When he exposed it and even showed proof to this he was the evil bad guy and he's oh so crazy.

Then you go on facebook or instagram and see what looks like people commenting following with the global opinion of things. There's real people but then there's also tons of fucking bots starting the comments and keeping things moving.

It's really sad what society has become. We are destroying ourselves with technology and hate. Which sucks, because those are 2 things i really love :D
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people are also generally dumb. the civil war was very complicated. it's easier to teach that it was good guys vs bad guys and it was all about slavery.

The north fought to stop the emancipation. the south fought because they were being shafted by the govt and they were sick of it.

lolz

He isn't far off. As long as there was no emancipation in the South, most
of the new land to the west was only open to settlement by Northerners,
which gave them additional opportunity that many in the South didn't have. Later, many Northerners also were not too thrilled by the influx of former slaves, or Southerners in general, into Northern cities.

So the usual generalizations of good vs. bad really are pretty dumb.


* SLMR 2.1a * no, I don't have a graduate degree - why do you ask?

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They would most certainly come up with a reason to still use them. Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry Potter even though Rowling is transphobe, but they sure as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

Can't separate art from the artist until it's convenient for them to....

They continue to be Harry Potter fans because that allows they to escape
into the fantasy world. So even thought the author may not approve of
their identifying as something they aren't, the books give them an outlet.

If she were a writer of some other form of fiction that was more reality
based, she'd be as cancelled as Mullberry Street.


* SLMR 2.1a * Penny for your thoughts? SURE, Do I get Change?

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Remember, these are the same people who won't ditch Harry
Potter even though Rowling is a transphobe, but they sure
as hell boycott anything anyone else "problematic" creates.

It is a shame when having an opinion about <something> makes a
person labelled as a <something>phobe.

Indeed. If that is what someone wants to do or, better yet, if they are
really gender dysphoric, then so be it. I can accept that is what might be right *for them*. However, acceptance is not enough for some... if you don't "celebrate" it, or accept that trans women are "better" than biological
women, or support biological men playing women's sports, or support children being exposed to it, you are a "phobe."

Basically, applying any real logic to it makes you a "phobe."


* SLMR 2.1a * Go softly....it's dark out there

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Re: Re: going to war
By: Phigan to Alonzo on Thu Dec 14 2023 11:26 am

You know, we didn't have toilets for like a thousand years just because some

What would happen if, at the height of cancel culture, there was a rumor that the inventor of the toilet was a racist and a rapist? :D

They'd be shiitin all over each other. :-)


|12HusTler
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Re: Re: going to war
By: Arelor to unc0nnected on Mon Dec 04 2023 02:29 pm

Refutation follows:

https://corporate.britannica.com/britannica_nature_response.pdf

Thanks for posting, took a bit of a hiatus from the boards but wanted to make you to share my appreciation.

...Do you know what this dream means?
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